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^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Dec 5 04:11:30 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Beldin Too late! I managed to get one thing done tonight, but I have successfully postponed something else for tomorrow.



^ v
Shan says:
(Mon Dec 5 02:12:38 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe

Never do today what you can put off tomorrow.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Dec 4 23:35:29 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard How did the weekend go? I've been procrastinating on stuff that needs to be done tomorrow!



^ v
Shan says:
(Sun Dec 4 21:34:21 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Comma

Aren't keyloggers a thing for a lot of workplaces, totally independent of anything to do with government, state, local or federal? It's also a common private business thing as well, surely?



^ v
Maverick says:
(Sun Dec 4 20:23:23 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Shan: You don't understand? I gave you 1,304 well-documented Lies Told by Obama. If these had been lies told by a Conservative, each would have led to an enormous Scandal that the Press would still be bringing up on a weekly basis. It's time for you, now, to do "that thinking thing." Disconnect from the hive and it's just you and the information. Come on, you can do this. I have faith in you. Take the link to the lies and read. Take notes, if necessary and you can research things.


Shan: By the way, I often go to my local library and take out TV Series DVD's. In recent times I have particularly liked "Downton Abbey," "Mr. Selfridge," "Wallander," "In Treatment," "The Walking Dead," "Game of Thrones," "Ray Donovan," "Man(h)attan," "Homeland," "The Americans," "Black Sails," "Spartacus," "The Vikings," "The Bridge," "Rectify," "Turn," "Dexter," and "The Night Manager." Many others. As far as network series, I often fall asleep during commercials and miss the end of the show, but I most always can stay awake for "Blue Bloods."


white wings: Well, prepare yourself for the onslaught AGAINST Trump for everything he does. It will be aggravating and draining, but at least, we're not slipping downwards towards Marxism on a daily basis. As I was saying to KAM, what we need is the competition of a media network that keeps the left honest and calls them out on their lies. Fox has joined the left, methinks, and is not a true opposition (to the Lefty fantasies) networks.


This season of the year always makes me sad (which is not necessarily bad.) Especially sad was Karen Carpenter's death, which was so unnecessary, but which points out that the mind is a very fragile thing. She was definitely a part of Christmas music for me.


Maverick


Merry Christmas, Darling




^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Dec 4 19:56:18 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Comma Well, lets hope Trump doesn't lose his in the next four years, the consequences could be just as severe.



^ v
Comma says:
(Sun Dec 4 19:54:44 2016 75.143.154.113) [Edit/Delete]
Hello everyone. I just want all to know that anything I type on here is being monitored in Maryland. Not the site or all's post, just every keystroke that I make. I have a issued laptop for my actual work. Do all understand now why Hillary's actions mad me lose my mind?

Comma



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sun Dec 4 14:44:07 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Sunday, November 4th 2016 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!


Big Wise
Gray Mouser
Jenn
neonate
OzLet #1


Happy Birthday from the Bronze
to Big Wise, Gray Mouser, Jenn, neonate, OzLet #1



Wesley: And how does your kind define love? Demon: Same as all bodies. Same as everywheres. Love is sacrifice. 'Sacrifice''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
Shan says:
(Sun Dec 4 12:51:41 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
I'll get back to this when I have time but "I understand how much of a challenge thinking is to today's modern Leftist."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA NO.

+ Group Think Hive Mind Borg.

Oh, please.

Appendix:

Obama scandals.

Make a list. Don't even need evidence or corroboration for purposes of a list. Wikipedia gives me 6, so let's go from there.



^ v
white wings says:
(Sun Dec 4 04:14:59 2016 70.112.135.184) [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday Contessa Beth, Nya, Slayerette 2000, and Teardrop!


lostinamerica - San Francisco? That sounds lovely. I remember wandering through Chinatown when I went to a conference, and our Chinese system manager took me and his wife through and waited patiently while we pawed over pearls and trinkets, and of course did Chinese.

..scrolling..

Yes, you are evil. *g*


Maverick - You aren't getting the message. *g* I have been seeing through the red haze of total and unforgiving loathing since Sept. 11, 2012. I have followed a fair amount of the accusations that have followed over the years, and believe most of them, but it's not necessary. However, I do not wish to develop an ulcer, and need to think about other aspects of life, and I also need to be able to converse sanely with other people who may or may not share my anger.

Shan - It's easy to compliment yourself on a lack of scandals when (a) you have no problem with baldfaced lies, (b) the Justice(?) Department won't investigate or prosecute malfeasance in the administration, and (c) the majority of news services won't report about it. I think that to be a scandal, there need to be people talking about an event or action.

KAM - I actually had forgotten about "Fast and Furious". There's been so much *g*

Now it's time to retire and plot Christmas decorations.



^ v
Maverick says:
(Sun Dec 4 03:34:39 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Shan: There is no wrong way. I understand how much of a challenge thinking is to today's modern Leftist. I WAS one. I'd say up to age 35 or so, I WAS a bleeding heart, lock-step Democrat (after all, my father was a laborer working for Bethlehem Steel Corp. and he was in the United Steelworkers' Union. My hometown newspaper was the Tribune Democrat (that's how I grew up in the midst of Democrats.) I even worked for Hubert Humphrey at the Democrat Campaign Headquarters in my home town in Pennsylvania. I was thoroughly indoctrinated. Funny, though, the educational system in America, pre 1975, was really pretty good in that it, effectively, taught students HOW to think (not like today's schools that try to teach kids WHAT to think.) So, I transcended my education and am able to think for myself. For certain questions I know I need a minimum amount of information to form a valid opinion--I know this. Leftists, on the other hand, just need a BUNCH of other lefties who share the group-think (well--the group unthinking hive-mind.) So, it's entirely believable that you don't EVEN WANT TO understand what I'm talking about. You may be content with other (also unthinking) leftists telling you that you are correct. I was talking about Obama d!cking around with the Unemployment Rate data calculation (as an example) and the media not being the least bit interested in investigative journalism. It's a scandal of immense proportions. Another gargantuan scandal is the global warming data that is, again, being doctored to make it look like we are in an abnormal warming period to coincide with increased concentrations of CO2. Now, I know you don't want to really investigate this, as you WANT to be a part of the Hive (Borg-like) Brain, but here is an excellent interview by James Delingpole (Breitbart London) of Tony Heller (who goes by the pseudonym Steven Goddard on his website "Real Science.") Real Science documents that Obama's NASA has been sneaking lower data (replacing it) into the old temperature record of the U.S. for earlier years (like in the 1930's in order to make today's temperatures look ABNORMALLY high [when in fact often the 30's were hotter.]) Here is the Delingpole Interview which documents another Obama Scandal.


Maverick


Christmas, Baby Please Come Home




^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Dec 4 03:04:13 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Shan Its 8 pm where I am.
I just finished watching the four-
part crossover of Supergirl,
Flash, Arrow and Legends of
Tomorrow. Can't say the crossover
was entirely successful but there
were many moments of enjoyment.

Missed watching the Librarians and
the Fangs of Death last week, so I
was able to watch it now.



^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Dec 3 23:45:30 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
It's a quarter to eleven in the morning where I am ...



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Dec 3 23:40:50 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
And how is everyone doing this evening?



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Dec 3 19:45:25 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
sunny day, keeping the clouds away.....



^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Sat Dec 3 18:28:14 2016 216.164.173.90) [Edit/Delete]
Maverick Brittanica has
switched to a cyber form



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sat Dec 3 15:21:44 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Saturday, December 3rd 2016 C.E.
Twenty-Two Days Until Christmas


We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!


Contessa Beth
Nya
Slayerette 2000
Teardrop


Happy Birthday from the Bronze to Contessa Beth, Nya, Slayerette 2000, Teardrop!



This is my boat. They're part of my crew. No one's getting left. Best you get used to that.
Mal, 'Ariel'''


to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Sat Dec 3 14:48:39 2016 68.53.101.208) [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper--Yes, wouldn't
that be terrible if someone went
through and plucked out just one
bulb of all the opposing teams'
Christmas light bulb strings so
they wouldn't work--preferably in
a section of the string in a hard-
to-see area ;)

Hey, what can I say, I'm not evil
for nothin' :)

cc ChristopherMarlowe



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Sat Dec 3 14:40:17 2016 100.4.183.212) [Edit/Delete]
Chris Marlowe - You didnt tell us there was
supposed to be a theme. This brings things to a
whole new level. You gotta up your game.
Remember what I said about "working late." Oh,
and consider how hard it might be for the other
teams if all the extension cords in the office
suddenly went missing.

We're all counting on you to win this thing. ....for
the Bronze! ;-)



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Sat Dec 3 04:26:13 2016 174.196.128.141) [Edit/Delete]
ChristopherMarlowe --Time to
ask the little people if they'll
agree to be your elves--how much you
have in your operating budget ;)



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Dec 3 04:08:01 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
finally home...necessary meetings suck.



^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Dec 3 02:45:42 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Maverick

Don't take this the wrong way but I
find your arguments less than
convincing ... for about the last
10 years or more.



^ v
cmarlowe says:
(Sat Dec 3 02:18:35 2016 107.167.127.98) [Edit/Delete]
yet another meeting!



^ v
Maverick says:
(Sat Dec 3 02:07:41 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sat Dec 3 02:16:41 2016
DaddyCatALSO: Fixing Wikipedia and removing the political biases? The expression "p!ssing in the wind" comes to mind. Editing entries is an entirely fluid process; you can fix an entry and go on to the next entry and someone will already be un-fixing your first one. The problem with Progressives is that they have an emotional attachment to their beliefs, however irrational, AND, especially, they have more free time on their hands.


KAM: Yes, for factual entries, etc., Wikipedia is not bad, but it's no replacement for something like the Encyclopaedia Brittanica or Americana, which it DOES largely replace. The objectivity of an Encyclopedia is much preferred. I think they may have stopped compiling and priniting Encyclopedias, which would be a tragedy.


Shan: Well, maybe for scientific entries or factual entries, Wikipedia's adequate. But let an entry threaten the Progressive viewpoint and all hell breaks loose. I think you missed the subtlety of the different posturing of the "scandals." The voluminous listing of the Bush "scandals" follows from the Obama (Liberal)-controlled Mainstream Media's gleeful focus on something wrong in Conservative-town. Scandals emerge largely by how much time the media concentrates on an area of interest. As I said, the media may not even report Obama's transgressions and if they do they immediately forget them. Let me give you an example. How about the scandal of Obama changing the calculations of various benchmarks that allow his administration's policies to be evaluated? Obama's unemployment rates (of, for instance, his latest of 4.6%) cannot really be compared to Bush's Rates. Obama and his minion Sebelius changed how Welfare is handled in the Unemployment calculation. It used to be that someone collecting welfare had pledged to be looking for work, so he was counted among the unemployed, but Obama had the number of people receiving welfare removed from the unemployment calculation. Obama's excuse was something like, well that's being too tough on people on welfare. Interestingly, the original law calling for people on welfare to be designated unemployed was written in such a fashion as to preclude what Obama did. And yet he did it and because he's black he got away with it. If a conservative had done what Obama did the Media would still be writing about it and it would be a scandal. And, that's not even to mention that the current situation, with an abnormally large amount of people having been unemployed for so long, they drop out of the calculation. The labor forced participation rate has dipped to 62.6%, a 38-year low. This statistical manipulation is a scandal of enormous proportions but it is ignored by the Mainstream Media. Other things that Obama has done also are unreported scandals. His whole importation of Muslims (without proper vetting) and his wide-open southern border and scandals. The amount of disease that have been re-introduced in the States is a scandal. All the Muslim Brotherhood members in the Executive Branch are a scandal. Trust me--the unreported events of the Obama administration and their resultant scandals would dwarf Bush's overly-reported by the Obama-controlled media happenings.


Maverick


Trans-Siberian Orchestra "Christmas Canon"




^ v
Shan says:
(Sat Dec 3 00:56:22 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe

I think Amenadiel will be
stepping up in a big way with a
major storyline given his most
recent developments.

+ abt

As for Agents of SHIELD, I still
haven't seen much of Season 1 and
there's still episodes in the
first half of Season 2 I haven't
seen.

However, I haven't missed
anything since then. I still
think Season 3 (the second half)
had the best villain arc and
resolution out of anything in the
Marvel filmed universe (just
chilling ...) and Ghost Rider's
been great this season.

I really think it's turned into
some fantastic television,
basically.



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 23:25:49 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Wikipedia's perfectly fine and
studies have shown (TM) that it's
information is more than
reputable enough in terms of
content and referencing. Of
course, with any individual piece
of information, due your due
diligence.

Now as I said, this should be
much less contentious (should be)
because it was just a list of
events by defined by a certain
criteria (actual legalities
versus controversies.)

So, if we expand that list from
just legalities to controversies
as well ... I guess it could go
from 6 to ... I don't know, 16
perhaps? Someone want to make a
list?

But if you do that, you'd have to
do the same for his predecessor
and you'd go from 33 to ... I
don't know, 133? 330? I suspect
history says it would be a lot.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Dec 2 22:32:45 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
lostinamerica That would be a better idea! So far, everything looks nice and Christmas-sy, but it doesn't exactly scream 'Santa's Workshop'



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Fri Dec 2 22:11:12 2016 68.53.101.208) [Edit/Delete]
ChristopherMarlowe--Yes,
we'll be seeing relatives in San
Francisco :) I'm looking forward
to going, haven't been to San Fran
in at least 12 years, maybe more.

And if your theme is the North
Pole for your office Xmas
decorating contest, why don't you
do Waterworld? It's all
melting, and who wants that happy
Xmas stuff anyway ;)

cc Agent Cooper


Yay! Nuphalanx!


Belated Yay! Dust'em!



^ v
abt says:
(Fri Dec 2 21:47:58 2016 84.9.76.169) [Edit/Delete]
ChristopherMarlowe, Shan, I shall be watching Agents of Shield when it starts up here again, probably Jan or Feb.



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Dec 2 21:00:19 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
I like this time of year, but geesh, it gets dark EARLY. The sun starts to set around 3:30 and it's just about dark by 4.



^ v
KAM says:
(Fri Dec 2 20:37:33 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Hello again,

Maverick: I actually like Wikipedia as a starting point for general information, but like any source, it can be biased. The fact that individuals can edit it...major source of potential bias.

As to scandals...well, it isn't too hard to come up with an inflated, or whitewashed list for almost anything, nor it is hard to ignore...oh history...see Castro example.

On Trade: Well, I don't object to ALL government action, but as we agree--less. Tariffs are part of the National Government's Constitutional powers as I recall, so if need be, they can do it. I'd just suggesting using it very carefully.

KAM



^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Fri Dec 2 20:27:13 2016 199.127.148.10) [Edit/Delete]
Maverick Why don't you sign on a s a Wikipedia contributor and fix some of the shortcomings?



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Dec 2 19:38:57 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Chris Marlowe: No news of a set date as of yet, just that it IS coming, and sometime next year.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Dec 2 18:11:59 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper Excellent news! although I didn't think there was any doubt. Is there an airdate?



^ v
Maverick says:
(Fri Dec 2 17:58:57 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Dec 2 18:03:51 2016
Trivia Girl: Spearchucker


Shan (KAM): Wikipedia is a Joke. If you expect to see the Left and the Right treated even-handedly in Wikipedia, you are delusional. I had to laugh at the Executive Listings of the Obama Administration. Obvious omissions: all the lies Obama told about Obamacare; Benghazi; Arab Spring; the lies involved in Obama's Iran Nuclear Deal; the DHS whitewash of people entering the country because the govt was "afraid" of stepping on people's rights (the San Bernadino couple.) The problem with Obama's administration is that he had the Mainstream Media in his pocket. Any allegations were not investigated by the Media but were systematically ignored and dropped like a hot potato and they disappeared from people's memories. Obama's administration is largely hidden from view, like the iceberg underwater. Trump will undoubtedly go crazy unearthing Obama's treacheries. For some idea of how extensive the problem (scandals) has really been you CAN look a little deeper on the internet, like how about the listing of 1,304 well-sourced Obama lies. Obama Lies 1 thru 500 and Obama Lies 501 thru 1000 and Obama Lies 1001 thru 1,304 Chew on these for a while.


KAM: Yes, LESS government. The problem, though, at this current point in time is that to get the whole interaction/transaction system back on track there WILL have to be some drastic government actions to equalize the trade environment. Like for instance stopping other countries from exporting things to us tariff free while imposing large tariffs on our stuff which we export to them. Reciprocity.


Agent Cooper: Okay, you be Judy and I'll be Punch.


white wings: Well, did you at least watch that "lady patriot" video? The thing is you need to lose your lunch a few times to grasp the full extent of Obama's mendacity. I have atrial fibrillation which I blame on Obama. It's part of life amidst reality.


Maverick


Trans-Siberian Orchestra's "Christmas Eve in Sarajevo"




^ v
Cutter, Blood of Ten Chiefs says:
(Fri Dec 2 17:14:11 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Wow, it's quiet today. Let's do SOCK PUPPETS!



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Dec 2 16:18:45 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Stranger Things is getting a second season!

Hoody hoo!



^ v
KAM says:
(Fri Dec 2 15:57:00 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Dec 2 16:50:06 2016
Hello again,

Shan: Right--it doesn't matter whether you're talking about US Politics or politics at all. We're talking about the approach to how "sides" are viewed.
Nothing I said is contingent on what the "sides" are in particular--I thought I had been clear about that by saying "Nor does it matter to this statement"

What I'm saying is that anyone who holds to one side of any given topic is inherently claiming that they are right and the other side is wrong (unless they are totally dishonest and willfully embracing what they know is wrong).
The other side takes the same approach--insisting that they are right.

If they're not able to get beyond that, then the discussion is over, and those people simply become enemies. What could be easier...or less productive to just assume that things (EDITED: Said "aren't" originally. More accurate to say cannot be valid) equal, because I have chosen a side?
No, on the contrary, I have to always be mindful of the possibility that the other side MIGHT be correct, and could forward an argument that would convince me otherwise. In fact, I should do my best to explore their position and approach my view from their standpoint to test it.

There are false equivalencies, and that's the result of poor or nonsensical arguments most often (which people will also disagree about). That's fine to point that out, but more often it is a short-hand means of ignoring someone's argument that you dislike. It is often "false" because someone doesn't value something in the same way, rather than there being a factual error.

Someone expressed an opinion that Trump's election was a horrible thing, because it would lead to people's right being violated--and they have their reasons why they think that. Another person would argue that they are relieved that Clinton didn't get elected, because she was a danger to their rights.
Are those Equal or not? Each side is talking about totally different 'rights' but each has the same concern (the President somehow violating their rights). So, my reaction is then to say "Why does the President have the power (in your minds) over our rights"?
Is that me "equating" the issues or is that me realizing that there is an issue with a larger scope--that they are misidentifying the problem (in my opinion).
ETA: BTW--the one side dismissed the other's concerns saying it was "false equivalency." In other words, the 'rights' they were concerned with were important, and the other side's weren't.

KAM



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Fri Dec 2 15:50:18 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia of the Day for Friday!


Retired presidents and first ladies receive protection from the Secret Service for 10 years after leaving office. Children of retired presidents receive protection until they are 16 years old.

The letters M.G. on the British sportscar actually stand for Morris Garage.

Calvin Coolidges will was one sentence long.

One of the primary reasons the mayflower pilgrims ended their voyage at Plymouth rock was pretty much the same reason people today suspend their journeys: they ran out of beer.

You have to count all the way to one thousand before the letter a is used in spelling a number.



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 15:00:16 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
"I honestly have no idea what
side you view as worse"

That's right.

Who even said I was talking about
the US?

Or about politics at all?

Too often in general, I see
positions debated from a point of
view that somehow it's always got
to be framed as both sides are
equal.

I find this state existing in
reality ... is uncommon in at
best.



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 14:54:14 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
This was a fun exercise

[a
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wi
ki/List_of_federal_political_scan
dals_in_the_United_States"]

This administration - number of
executive bullet points (1 point
= 1 scandal)

Total = 6

Previous administration

Total = 33

I'm guessing based on this,
"Scandal is defined as "loss of
or damage to reputation caused by
actual or apparent violation of
morality or propriety." In
politics scandals are kept
separate from 'controversies,'
(which implies two differing
points of view) and
'unpopularity.' Many decisions
are controversial, many decisions
are unpopularthat alone does not
make them scandals.[citation
needed]

The criterion for inclusion is
whether an activity was, or
appeared to be, illegal. Breaking
the law is a scandal.
Misunderstandings, breaches of
ethics, unproven crimes or cover-
ups may or may not result in
inclusion depending on the
standing of the accuser, the
amount of publicity generated,
and the seriousness of the crime,
if any. The finding of a court
with jurisdiction is the sole
method used to determine a
violation of law."

is why Solyndra the response to
Hurricane Katrina isn't included.
A very specific definition then.

Also:

"This is a dynamic list and may
never be able to satisfy
particular standards for
completeness. You can help by
expanding it with reliably
sourced entries."

Heh.



^ v
KAM says:
(Fri Dec 2 14:50:02 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Hello again,

Shan: I noticed your post that stated: Yes, but this whole "Both sides do it." and "both sides are equally bad." is a false dichotomy. Of course, there's always room for improvement (and often much improvement) but one side easily is much, much worse than the other and has been for some time. This is easily demonstrable using "science", "facts" and rules of "evidence".

I honestly have no idea what side you view as worse (nor does it matter to this statement). However, what I do know is that people from both "sides" hold this exact same position. It really comes down to "Well, but what I think is right". "Facts" "science" and "evidence." Nice concepts that really aren't followed and especially not in regards to politics.
What if we CAN establish an irrefutable fact? Ok, then what does that fact mean to X, Y or Z? Right back to personal views.

Clearly, if you're dealing with an honest person (harder to find perhaps than one might wish), then OF COURSE they think that the view they hold is correct (True, valid, etc), or they wouldn't hold that position. I think the problem that your statement is bypassing is that these differences ARE going to exist, and the trick is being able to accept that within the framework of shared principles and to live together. For many things this is possible (Religion for example--we've proved that in the US), but not for everything. At some point, people will have a line that they're simply not willing to cross, or reach across. That's why "mind your own business" is such a valuable position--because it doesn't force people to accept things that they simply cannot accept (for whatever reason). If everyone took a step towards that, we'd be a much happier.

KAM



^ v
KAM says:
(Fri Dec 2 14:26:36 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Hello again,

White Wings: You're absolutely correct. Government CANNOT be involved in this "reform" because inherently, the "4th Estate" needs to be independent. The fact that they AREN'T is the issue.
There are some journalists who in my view make an attempt to actually report the news, but many more who don't. "Fake news" again is an issue...except when media outlets WANT that bias--then it is ok.
The fact is, journalists have consistently identified as Democrats, and overwhelmingly donate to Democrats over Republicans, which is of course their right to be and do. However, to think that this doesn't translate into their reporting is wishful thinking. The solution however isn't to have more conservatives--that's the Fire/Ice fallacy. What we need is more ETHICAL people, with higher standards.
We need to be able to trust that a Democrat Reporter puts that second (or farther back) behind their Journalistic integrity. I think that's an exception rather than the rule.

I don't know what the practical solution is, but perhaps one idea would be to have more ombudsmen, with one specific function--that is to judge whether a report is opinion or not, and then simply list that. Every news story could be reported as normal, and in the end, a panel of Ombudsmen reads is and makes one decision--whether or not it contains opinion, and if so, put a Header that Says "Opinion" next to it.
This doesn't force a reporter to change his story, or the content of the story, but it IS labeled based on what the story is. I realize this is easier said than done, but starting to get to that point where the reader is alerted to the nature of what they are reading would be a good start. The Danger in this is to NOT judge content of the report when rendering this decision.

Maverick: If a company can operate more cheaply, in a competitive environment it is very likely that they will lower the cost to the customer. That's what's great about a free market.
However, if we have so much manipulation that we do not have those free market interactions, then we've got bigger problems.
Government by the very nature of its involvement (taxes, regulations) alters that market interaction--specifically when it comes to international business where we cannot control the taxes and regulations of another nation.
The answer is not MORE government interaction in the process, it is less.

KAM



^ v
KAM says:
(Fri Dec 2 14:10:55 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Good Morning Everyone,

YAY NUPHALANX

Shan, White Wings: There have been no scandals in this administration? Maybe no personal scandals, but are we forgetting 'Fast and Furious' for example, where I believe that the former Attorney General is was held in contempt of Congress.
What about Solyndra and other similar companies? Perhaps not a "scandal" in the sexy way, but certainly a governmental issue.
What about the IRS's treatment of organizations? That's government blocking political opposition to an administration and/or his party.
I guess it depends on what you call a "scandal." What about the fact that the President attempted to unlawfully use executive power in regards to illegal immigration (rejected by the court)?
But yes, President Obama has remained largely above that fray personally, and remains quite popular. Which again, might be due to his even greater popularity with the media.
Clearly, people of different political persuasions will see these events in a different light.
President Obama surely holds a unique position as being immune to responsibility for any bad things that happen under his watch, but amazingly credited for anything good.
Just look--we've got a GREAT unemployment rate right now--4.6%...isn't that awesome. Don't bother to ask about the labor participation rate however...that's not important.
Also, I'm sure that the word "underemployment" and phrase "low-paying jobs" will be making a HUGE comeback in 2017. Just you wait and see.

KAM



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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Dec 2 13:44:54 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Dec 2 13:46:18 2016
Today is Friday, December 2nd, 2016 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!


Anderson
Lil Pia
Safaribrother
SOLO22
Steven-The Scottish One
Keith Szarabajka as Holtz
Verinthalia
Werewolf, Where Wolf?

Happy Birthday from the Bronze
to Anderson, Lil Pia, Safaribrother, SOLO22, Steven-The Scottish One, Keith Szarabajka as Holtz, Verinthalia, Werewolf, Where Wolf?



Wesley: And how does your kind define love? Demon: Same as all bodies. Same as everywheres. Love is sacrifice.'Sacrifice''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
YayofTheDay says:
(Fri Dec 2 13:39:02 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for nuphalanx!

yay nuphalanx!


Happy Thank Joss Its Friday!



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 09:47:44 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
whitewings

I think the most likely outcome is that none of my (other) people will ever come this way and if they do, it probably wouldn't be more than one or two once or twice.

So, in that sense, it literally would be like a fire assembly point after being evacuated in a drill - or from an actual fire.



^ v
abt says:
(Fri Dec 2 08:51:35 2016 84.9.76.169) [Edit/Delete]
Interesting anti Brexit by election result last night. It's a wealthy part of London.



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 08:00:13 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe

No rush, they're not going anywhere any time soon. Read the comments section for the current page of Shattered Starlight (page 43). A familiar name or two might crop up.



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 06:09:50 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Dec 2 06:13:02 2016
whitewings

Given the scandals of every
previous administration prior to
this one going back a long way he
... he ... he may have a point,
actually.

Obligatory:

Report - Presidents Washington Through
Bush May Have Lied About Key Matters



^ v
white wings says:
(Fri Dec 2 05:00:29 2016 70.112.135.184) [Edit/Delete]
Yay dust 'em

Happy Birthday Gile's Lady and PLDGEMSTER!

ERGO SUM - I was going to crawl into bed, but I just peeked in, and there you were, so of course I had to be here as well. I managed to work a Buffy reference into a political-adjacent discussion below. Does that help? Actually, it makes me want to go back and watch Buffy again.

Of greater importance to society as a whole, I still have one source for a two step Angelfood cake mix. I do not know how long that will last, because the same outfit is also making a one step mix. *ptooey* Over Thanksgiving that section of the shelf was stripped bare, so either lots of people like it or there is someone else who stocks up.

Maverick - Since you very considerately labeled the link and further expanded on the concept in your post, I knew that the subject was one I have heard before. I was (and am now) already unhappy about the situation, and if your link contained more specifics than I had already heard, I might have lost my last meal. I don't go in for that form of dieting. *g*

Shan - I had the advantage (so to speak) of surfing the channels and hearing a part of one of Obama's recent speeches in which he was very self-congratulatory about the lack of scandals. If you had not heard that, then the "he" would have been mysterious.

I think there's room on the board for emergency visits from displaced refugees, as long as it isn't taken over forever. We've been there ourselves. Of course I have myself been largely absent for many months, so I'm not certain that I should be speaking at all.

KAM - It would be lovely to have a free and unbiased press. I wonder now if we ever had that, but we may have had journalists who attempted to be unbiased. Given where we are now, I don't know where we will go. Government cannot be involved in press reform. Cannot. It has to come from within, and people proposing to go into that career have to be educated to believe in the concept. I do not believe that any member of the fourth estate thinks it is important to reform themselves. This may be one of the greatest things that we should fear.

With regard to the idea of principle vs "want" - once again, Buffy comes to the rescue. We learned from Buffy that "Want, take, have" just results in assistant mayors being offed and the temporary euphoria recedes to despair. Ah, the glory days.

Christopher Marlowe - We don't have office Christmas trees any more. We can have little desk trees. But the days of gorgeous poinsettia trees decking the halls are gone. We don't have office contests, just door contests. It's so drab. Even the "Christmas" lunch is turned into an all-staff meeting. To be sure there are games, but they tend to look a lot like team-building exercises. There are good prizes, though. I once got four hours of leave.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Dec 2 04:40:10 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
[Shan I'll have to take a closer look at your links tomorrow, I'm barely keeping my eyes open tonight.

I watched both Lucifer and Agents of SHIELD. I'm liking this season of SHIELD a heckuva lot more than the past couple of seasons.

Lucifer is fun and fascinating. I wasn't a fan of mr. Morningstar before, but he's definitely growing on me. I wish they could have a better plotline for Amandiel, having him be moony-eyed over Maze seems rather lazy.



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 03:56:38 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Come on people, all this time spent talking is time not being spent reading The Weave and Shattered Starlight. Not only do I really want to hear opinions, there's also the fact that until someone makes a Buffy Universe follow up for Netflix or something, we have to fill the time with something.

(Once again, I mention both Lucifer and Agents of SHIELD.)



^ v
ergo sum says:
(Fri Dec 2 03:40:40 2016 71.236.111.101) [Edit/Delete]
VERY true

And, do they hold themselves to the same
standards they demand of the other side of the
aisle



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Dec 2 03:40:11 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Finally home! I had a three hour board retreat that just ended 15 minutes ago. Revising articles of incorporation and bylaws, which is as exciting as it sounds.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Dec 2 03:38:23 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
ergo sum,

I've discovered there are some ridiculous posts that are not worth the time
and energy to 'challenge'.

WG



^ v
ergo sum says:
(Fri Dec 2 03:28:01 2016 71.236.111.101) [Edit/Delete]
correction: It gives me.....

(I am often plagued by fat fingers and poor
proofing )



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 03:27:00 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Yes, but this whole "Both sides do it." and "both sides are equally bad." is a false dichotomy. Of course, there's always room for improvement (and often much improvement) but one side easily is much, much worse than the other and has been for some time. This is easily demonstrable using "science", "facts" and rules of "evidence".



^ v
ergo sum says:
(Fri Dec 2 03:21:45 2016 71.236.111.101) [Edit/Delete]
wise
I find extreme rhetoric from both ends very
disturbing on many levels. But I do like to check
this forum for opinions. I give me a view of things
I don't get elsewhere. And the ridiculous is
always challenged!



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 03:04:41 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
I took one look at where things were heading in late 2015 and checked out until after the election.



^ v
ergo sum says:
(Fri Dec 2 03:01:31 2016 71.236.111.101) [Edit/Delete]
Shan

I think your right (or maybe left)...that's why I
only peek occasionally



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 02:43:16 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Try again in December 2020.



^ v
ergo sum says:
(Fri Dec 2 02:30:03 2016 71.236.111.101) [Edit/Delete]
Peeking in to see if the post election rhetoric has
calmed a little.......but I see a graceful flutter of
white......WHITE WINGS could it really be you???



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 02:26:31 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard

I know, I checked, I really checked and yet somehow totally managed to make a mess of it.

Looks like our Thousand Years of Darkness is starting with my eyesight.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Fri Dec 2 02:18:27 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Shan,

I was asking about your post to me that referenced the following quote ...

"...I am not following that link. I
will not be made nauseous. It
was bad enough that he
gloated over having had no scandals
in his administration. "...
"

I googled the above and the first result was ...

www.bronzebeta.com

"Maverick - I am not following that link. I
will not be made nauseous. It
was bad enough that he
gloated over having had no scandals
in his administration. "


I don't know if this means someone said it to Maverick or Maverick said it
to someone else. If the latter, I don't know. I have not read one of his
posts since the 10th edition of The National Geographic Atlas was
published.



WG



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 02:16:07 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Fri Dec 2 02:16:50 2016
However, since we're in that subject area, let me recommend a couple of webcomics which I think are very good and at least in the general ballpark of the sort of subject matter Buffy and Angel inhabit. They're very quick reads and I'd be interested to see what people think.

The Weave

Shattered Starlight



^ v
Shan says:
(Fri Dec 2 01:56:59 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Great. Now I thought
wolfguard was asking 'who'
about the potential ne'er-do-wells
I might end up bringing over here
the next time there's a forum
outage (when, not if).

I'm really doing so well in
the communicating effectively
department these days ...



^ v
Maverick says:
(Fri Dec 2 01:38:53 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Obama Mocks the Idea of Trying to Keep Carrier Jobs


white wings: Since you told me you were not going to take the link showing the treachery of Obama, I'm guessing you want me to give you hell for "averting your eyes" from viewing head-on his realistic duplicity. Is that some kind of chick thing, not able to stare evil in the face? Cut it out. You need to realize when you're being manipulated and/or skewered. And you need info that will show others how to recognize things Obama's Mainstream Media will hide from you.


Who else likes Ataulfo Mangoes? They're the small gold-colored ones. I like them best because I've never got one that wasn't "ripe." They always are ready to eat and you don't have to try to pick out a softening one.


Christopher Marlowe: Check your Trivia summary answers. Someone sent you a Freudian slip message. I keep expecting, since he claimed to be an atheist, a message. It will come.


Maverick


Bless The Beasts and The Children




^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Dec 1 23:10:04 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I look forward to your respond, although I may not be able to make it home until late, super long meeting tonight, unfortunately!



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Dec 1 23:01:51 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Presidents
Question: Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller was VP under which President?
Answer: Ford

Trivia Presidents: notsoShyGirl
Trivia veeps: AGent Cooper, valMichael



^ v
Maverick says:
(Thu Dec 1 22:21:38 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Harold Stassen.


KAM: I think you are saying that WE could well use that 15% reduction in cost that Carrier could save in transferring production to Mexico. Well, for the most part WE wouldn't see it. Carrier would just put that in their pocket (a windfall profit) because they are already competing with other Manufacturers that undercut them in pricing and they've had to reduce their prices accordingly. There are all kinds of ways of looking at this whole situation. One says that the people who lose THEIR jobs can no longer afford to pay for Carrier's products and other local expenses. THEIR ability to work, though, since jobs are saved, funds more money into their local economy supporting other servicing jobs. The Progressives mock this as "trickle down," but they are goofy--it IS a real benefit to those who receive it. BUT remember Carrier's competitors can build their products outside the U.S. and bring them in relatively tariff-free (in the meantime if Carrier wanted to sell its products in the competitor's country it WOULD be subject to tariffs there.) But tariffs are not the total story. Carrier, here, has also been subjected to Obama's hydra-headed regulators who want to force businesses to make facility changes and file additional forms and/or comply with other environmental restrictions, etc. Also, employee taxes and benefits play a large part in the expenses of doing business here. But, probably the greatest negative impairment to building something here is artificial and bureaucratic workplace restrictions. So, we effectively PUSH businesses out of the country and more thought has to go into the treatment and regulation of businesses in the U.S. It's not as easy as the Progressives think it is: just wait till the Capitalists make money (the assumption: they always will) and extort some of it.


Maverick


Here's Where The Story Ends




^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Dec 1 21:01:21 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper

Your Site Leaders have been organizing our On-Site Holiday Party. The party details are below:
Thursday, December 8th
NO Work: Noon 2pm (really, we are taking two PAID hours off mid-day!)
Theme The site will be transformed into our version of the North Pole! Decorating has begun and will step up now that month end is over.
Site-wide Potluck bring enough for all to share, not just your team/dept. Prizes for best food categories will be awarded.


Some of the creative activities that the teams have come up with include: Pin the nose on the reindeer, Jinglebell toss, Snowball toss, Ornament dash, Holiday Selfie Station, Snowball throwing challenge, Apple Cider Pong, Snowman bucket toss, Holiday putting green, Antler toss, Blindfold Holiday drawing, Holiday Chopsticks, Color a gingerbread house, Chubby Snowman, Penguin waddle, Santas Limbo, Bad Santa Picture, Holiday Plinko, Holiday cup toss and many other fun games.

Prizes we have a bunch! To be eligible you have to participate and get your Activity Card stamped. Go to a minimum of 6 of the 11 Business Units, get your card stamped in each area and drop it off in Santas prize bag to be eligible to win!!! The drawings will start at 1:30pm in one of our central stairwells so all can watch the drawings and see who wins! One prize per employee and only permanent employees are eligible. Activity Cards will be available for all employees.

Have fun, mingle with your coworkers. Organize a selfie photo! Eat fantastic food. Work your way through the whole site to participate in fun activities! Win a prize.

Thanks for all that you do every day! Your hard work, great attitudes are contagious!

Your Site Leadership Team:



^ v
Shan says:
(Thu Dec 1 20:07:43 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
"They" would be the members of
the Bad Webcomics Wiki. They may
well not take this option up
anyway (I have also been after
them for a while to change our
forum software).

However, there's more than one
faction over there, so just in
case to avoid a repeat of the
Whitechapel* Fiasco, I want as
many boltholes set up as
possible.

*Another terminal forum collapse,
where I tried to organise an
evacuation to ironically enough,
the Bad Webcomics Wiki forums. It
failed.



^ v
Dust'em says:
(Thu Dec 1 19:35:13 2016 65.213.181.103) [Edit/Delete]
And thanks to notsoShyGirl for
the heads-up! HUGS!



^ v
Dust'em says:
(Thu Dec 1 19:15:03 2016 65.213.181.103) [Edit/Delete]
Thanks for the Yays to
YayOfTheDay,
ChristopherMarlowe &
KAM! I don't drop by very often
anymore and this is pretty cool!
HUGS!



^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Thu Dec 1 19:03:18 2016 96.87.54.73) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl
He served as the 41st Vice President of the United States (1974-77) under
President Gerald Ford



^ v
KAM says:
(Thu Dec 1 18:27:04 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Hello again,

Reichstag Fire Mentality
Oh no! Inflammatory language!
I'm seeing a lot of this--meaning, people looking to exploit any given event for their own propaganda, and I find it very dangerous and dishonest.
The Ohio State University attack earlier this week is a perfect example. Before anyone knew anything people were out screaming about "enough is enough" and "isn't it time we talked about gun-control" and similar attempts to stand on the presumed bodies of victims--including the VP Candidate Senator Tim Kaine.
Well, as it turns out, the only gun used was by a police officer who stopped the attack using his firearm, perhaps likely lives.
However in the words of the reprehensible Rahm Emanuel 'never let a good crisis go to waste.' Yes, wonderful sentiment that would have made actual Nazi's proud. This isn't to say Rahm (who is Jewish) is inspired by Nazi ideology, but rather that he shares this common desire to exploit crisis. Many others do as well.
Now, oddly enough, the ACTUAL situation falls into the category of immigrants (specifically Muslims) having executed a number of attacks on innocents. That fits the Trump position, and although I've not hear a whole lot about it, I know it has been brought up--in that side's attempt to exploit the situation, supporting their position.

Well, I'm here to say...STOP IT! Stop exploiting victims, and stop rushing to judgement before the facts are known. This happens quite often--people rush out to exploit an event and when they're proven wrong...well, no apology or retraction comes. These idiots just slither back under their rocks and ghoulishly wait for the next event to exploit.

I won't say that this is exclusive to one side or position, but I think it is most common among Gun-Control advocates. Further, I think that they're additionally disgustingly dishonest, because this attempt at exploitation has failed very noticeably...except I suspect as a fund-raising effort. So, ironically, these activists are really exploiting the people who agree with them. That also isn't unique to this group, but I'd guess rather common. Scare tactics and exploiting the people they're supposedly advocating for is really disgusting.
It is clear to me that many if not most of these groups exist only because they can maintain "awareness" for an issue and thus siphon money from people who actually care about it.

This also falls into the "crying wolf" problem, which will only result in ACTUAL victims being drowned out in the sea of hysterical nonsense.

KAM



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Dec 1 18:11:58 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Chris Marlowe: Well, long heeded tradition dictates a carrot here, or perhaps a button for a less ostensive feel.

If you are relegated to using only office supplies, I'd suggest a marker cap, or perhaps a small binder clip.



^ v
abt says:
(Thu Dec 1 18:01:15 2016 84.9.76.169) [Edit/Delete]



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Dec 1 17:54:37 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper More decorating! I've been consulting with a fellow employee on what to make as the nose on the snowman we are putting up.



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Thu Dec 1 16:22:05 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Charles Nelson Reilly.

Because in my mind, I always think three-name people should hang out together.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Dec 1 15:58:52 2016 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Dec 1 16:00:06 2016
Drive-By

Shan,

Your, "Who are we talking about here?", I did not recognize the quote.


Trivia Girl,

One of Buffy's doubles was dating the Immortal. I don't know who Buffy was actually dating ... but I will look into it. *g*


Christopher Marlowe,

Re: News

Just on CNN: 300 Marines are being stationed in Norway near the border with Russia ... Ooops ... in the last third of the story Trump enters the story (how his statements and positions on NATO may affect Russia's behavior). Reporter ask Norwegian officer (?) what he thinks of Trump. Soldier ~ we're not allowed to talk about that.

There are other interesting non-Trump stories and I will report back on them later tonight. *g*



WG



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Dec 1 15:53:05 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
"Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Presidents
Question: Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller was VP under which President?



^ v
KAM says:
(Thu Dec 1 15:03:34 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Hello again,

Fake News
Lots of talk about "fake news" being a problem. Let me cut to the chase on this. Give me a frigging break. What this ACTUALLY means is that people want THEIR propaganda, while eliminating the propaganda of others.
This is a tactic that is common with certain people--that is the arrogant claim of holding the high ground, because you see--THEY are right and everyone else is wrong.
Well, the problem there is that many of those people are living in a bubble of their own propaganda and have NO interest in facts or truth.

So, no this is just another dishonest, hypocritical tactic to silence anyone that you disagree with, and again I say no.
I'm NOT a fan of propaganda, but in the end, you can't silence people, even if they are telling lies. The way to deal with that is to tell TRUTH, and refute those lies. Imperfect for sure, but the alternative is a Disaster.

But you know what helps alleviate this? OH, that's right--an actual unbiased Trustworthy Media that is credibly dedicated to unbiased reporting of facts. If we had a pillar of our Republic like this, then the less honest, or simply biased people could keep pushing what they think, but people would have a reliable trusted source to balance that again.

This country (and the world) needs a Reformation in the field of Journalism. Anyone brave enough can do this, and can SUCCEED! All it takes is being honest, and a willingness to value professionalism over your own political preferences.
I'm hard pressed to think of anything more important to a Free Society.

KAM



^ v
KAM says:
(Thu Dec 1 14:36:56 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Dec 1 14:39:25 2016
Good Morning Everyone,

YAY DUST'EM

White Wings
: Contrary to what some Presidents seem to think, they can't actually do a lot of things, and even less if we're really adhering to the Constitution.
What really bothers me are the hypocrites who are more than happy to have their "guy" abuse Presidential power, and then throw a hysterical fit, when they ACCUSE a President Elect (who currently has no power, and has actually not done anything) based on something said. That's not to say that they shouldn't oppose something that's outside of the President's power--rather that they're negligent in enabling it in the first place, thus losing any credibility in regards to principles.
In other words...it comes back to the same old, pathetic, and dangerous mindset that is nothing more than "I want."

THAT is the great internal evil that our society is facing right now--Citizens that believe that "I want" is a justification for anything. It is long past time that sane people start pushing back on this and saying "No, you follow the law, and if you want to change things, you work within the Constitution to do so." When you DON'T succeed (often because what you want, you don't get to throw a tantrum and burn things, riot, etc.

I'm HOPING there are enough citizens left in this country that REJECT the "I want" mindset, whether they agree with my views or not, because the alternative is a lawless society.

Maverick: I'm with you on the "level playing field" thing. However, in your example...Carrier now has no advantage to moving to Mexico. Ok, so what happens to that 15% that would have been gained? Who pays for that? That's LESS profit for their shareholders, or more cost for their customers, both of which have repercussions as well.
The question to ask is why it is less advantageous to do business in the US. Labor costs are part of it, but not all of it. US Labor Productivity is also high for example.
The way that Government SHOULD make business more attractive is to remove what government has done to make it unattractive--namely taxes and regulations. Otherwise, government gets to happily keep collecting and the citizens pay for it, allowing them to fund X, Y or Z, which may or may not benefit the citizens, and which remains as a distortion on free markets.
Tariff's MAY be needed at some point in specific cases, but that's again just going to shift the burden to the customers/citizens.

On the Media: I think that's correct. Some organization has to be the one that stands up and upholds the standards of journalism. I personally think that this would appeal to a good amount of people, once they see the contrast.
The alternative, we have now is "new media" people who are countering the mainstream media, which is better than a one-sided presentation, but not the same as an unbiased presentation.

But perhaps I'm dreaming about this as well. There is a downward spiral here of people being blasted with propaganda, but also of their eagerness to hear it. The hysterical reactions I'm seeing in some quarters to Trump's election is not rational, and those people do not WANT unbiased news--they want their views supported and are more than happy to parrot the "news" they choose that supports those wants.

That isn't to say that ALL opposition to Trump is hysterical, nor that he shouldn't be opposed and questioned (again, what an unbiased media should be doing) in order to get to the truth of the matter. That's ANOTHER consequence of the hysterical, biased reaction to everything that SOME people engage in. It is the "crying wolf" thing, which they just don't seem to be able to understand.

I really think that we're at a crisis point with all of this nonsense ruling, and being embraced by so many.

I am totally comfortable with partisan battles, where people have different views and argue them out. So, I am not a person in "the middle" in terms of that, but it has become clear to me that there has to be a "Center" in FORM and how we deal with each other, and adhere to principles or else we're just sliding towards being enemies--outright enemies.

There are a FEW voices out there trying to hold this middle ground. Again, not in PERSONAL views, but in PRINCIPLED positions and ways they deal with others that do not share their views. I think this has to become a rallying point for any remaining reasonable people, regardless of personal political aims.

KAM



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Thu Dec 1 14:27:21 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Thursday, December 1st, 2016 C.E.

We have TWO (2) Birthdays!


Gile's Lady
PLDGEMSTER


Happy Birthday from the Bronze to Gile's Lady, PLDGEMSTER



I'm just, uh, just feeling kinda... truthsome right now. And, uh... life's just too damn short for ifs and maybes. Mal, 'Heart Of Gold'

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Dec 1 14:14:23 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
yay dust'em!



Happy CD Thursday!



Shan I don't have any problems!



^ v
Shan says:
(Thu Dec 1 12:56:03 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Does anyone have any objection if
I ever nominate this place as
like an internet fire marshalling
point for one of my other online
communities goes down, so that we
can regroup and await further
instructions? I won't do it if
people don't want me to.

Corollary: Yuku free forum
software is probably not the best
option down there (this is like
the 6th time in the last few
months.)



^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Thu Dec 1 11:53:56 2016 108.39.244.205) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for dust'em!

yay dust'em!



Happy CD Thursday!



^ v
Shan says:
(Thu Dec 1 07:48:37 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
white wings

... and I checked repeatedly to try
and attribute that to the right
person *sigh*.



^ v
Maverick says:
(Thu Dec 1 07:32:52 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]




^ v
Maverick says:
(Thu Dec 1 07:12:31 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Gerard Butler


KAM1: Trump's disincentive to prevent jobs (like Carrier jobs) from bolting to Mexico IS that he promised that Carrier could make their whatevers in Mexico but then they could not bring them back into the U.S. without at least a 15% tariff. (So, in other words they were going to Mexico to save 15% in production costs but Trump makes it a "non-savings" by charging them the saved 15% [wiping out their savings] to bring the parts back into the U.S.) This "deal" is more like a threat abandoned. Now, most business decisions involve selecting the course of action that maximizes profit. Interestingly the U.S. competes with other countries that "protect" their home-grown industries. The U.S., however, has assumed a ridiculous position; we continually give things away and believe we are being philanthropic but, realistically, you can't continue to give things away and never conserve what you have. You WILL end up at zero. But, when we try to adopt a prudent "don't eat your seed corn" attitude our progressive politicians make the accusation that we are too profit-minded and not being generous enough. They are used to trading our country's assets for votes. But Capitalism is not a charity. So, we HAVE to reciprocate protectionism with other countries, just for survival purposes. If we want to sell our products in another country, chances are they charge us a tariff and raise the price of our goods so we are not competitive with their country's product. What Trump wants to do is merely to level this playing field.


KAM2: The only way we'll have a fair unbiased press once again is if THEY have to compete with a successful Media enterprise that attempts to tell the truth. That might have been Fox News, at one time, but that Fox itself has become too watered down and succumbed to Progressive pressures. It's hard to exist as the anti-PC ogre (no one wants to be painted as the party pooper) and that's what the Liberal Media does. I thought at one time that Glenn Beck could do it, but he in time melted down. The Mainstream Media pushes simple-mindedness and they have this club of self-congratulators who support each other's mental posturing and demonize anyone who can think real thoughts. But, a truly truth-minded media will eventually emerge from the partisan media and will be wildly successful.


Maverick


Last Christmas




^ v
white wings says:
(Thu Dec 1 06:40:15 2016 70.112.135.184) [Edit/Delete]
Yay Corvus!

Happy Birthday Blossom the tag slaying kitten, Dimples, k8cr8, and Tana!

KAM - Thanks.

Your vision of the next four or eight years of manufactured hysteria is probably
correct. *sigh* I agree that Trump will probably not take actions that he can't
actually take. *g* One of the Fox talking heads suggested that he should "Tweet
softly and carry a big stick".

Shan - That was my statement. The "he" is Obama.


No signs of the Apocalypse in Texas, if anyone wants to know. So far.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Dec 1 03:01:30 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
lostinamerica Are you doing any traveling in the near or far future?



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Thu Dec 1 01:10:09 2016 68.53.101.208) [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday k8cre8!


Yay! Corvus!



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Dec 1 00:22:53 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard What's the most interesting not-Trump news you've run across?



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Nov 30 23:08:49 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: Who do Spike and Angel find out is dating Buffy in the episode 'The Girl IN Question'?
Answer: The Immortal

Trivia MAtchmakersl; notsoShyGirl
Trivia Stood up: Agent Cooper



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Nov 30 21:13:59 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
AGent Cooper I like how you think!



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Nov 30 19:22:41 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Chris Marlowe: Stay late the night before the contest, to "catch up on some work." When everybody is gone, steal a bunch of lights from the other team's displays and go full Snoopy.

Guaranteed 1st place~!



^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Wed Nov 30 17:52:59 2016 199.127.148.10) [Edit/Delete]
deadguy Memorial Quod (okay, Quod isn't highlighted for spell-check) Well, I think the crater is part national monument, part state park, and the city has been rebuilt overlooking the southwest face; homes overlooking the crater are the second most ex[pensive neighborhood. Even though it isn't city land, they set up the 4th of July fireworks in the crater.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Nov 30 17:12:33 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper Not settled yet. All the cubicles have been decorated as well as our Christmas tree, but I'm not sure what all still needs to be done. Other departments are still working on their areas as well.



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Nov 30 16:47:30 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Keith Richards

Chris Marlowe: Say, how did the holiday decorating competition go? Did your office win or have they not settled that yet?



^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Wed Nov 30 16:14:43 2016 96.87.54.73) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl
The Immortal



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Nov 30 15:45:27 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: Who do Spike and Angel find out is dating Buffy in the episode 'The Girl IN Question'?



^ v
KAM says:
(Wed Nov 30 15:17:34 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Wed Nov 30 15:18:03 2016
Hello again,

Cutting "Deals" on Jobs (and Civics)
I'm sure that people are sick of politics at this point, and I am too. I'd really like to talk more about CIVICS.
I think a lack of civics (as opposed to political propaganda and parroting) may be a root-cause of a lot of the strife that's going on and to be blunt--ignorance. I'm not saying that I'm immune to any of that, nor that I've got the answers, but I suggest that people have forgotten, and in the case of younger people might never have been taught civics.
I think if all US Citizens (and legal residents) had a stronger foundation and grounding in Civics--what it means to be a citizen and the responsibilities of a citizen, we'd be less susceptible to politicians exploiting us for THEIR benefit.

In any case...this post is really about this news of Trump's deal with Carrier about 'keeping 1000 jobs in Indiana.' At the outset that sounds like a good thing, and maybe it is. Honestly, it sounds a bit like a PR effort, but I don't really know that. But for the moment, let's assume there was some deal cut that saves manufacturing Jobs.
My next thought is that this is playing with Fire. Anyone who has read my posts here (sorry if you have) knows that I'm quite skeptical of overly-intrusive government. So, if there is a "deal" cut that would change a company's mind NOT following what would have been in their best financial interest, then what makes up for that? What incentive was offered and who is paying for that, and how does it distort a free market economy from working?

Now, these are questions, not accusations, and I realize that "free markets" aren't exactly what we have with currency and other sorts of manipulation. But cutting specific "deals" doesn't seem like the approach that actually helps. Rather, reworking the FOUNDATION of our Trade, tax, economic and financial policies is what's really needed, rather than some sprawling web of "deals."
What I want from my government is a clean, and clear system of laws and policies that are NOT a web of red-tape and special favors. That's what CREATES problems.

I have this dream (fantasy really) of a real movement towards Reform in our country, which minimizes government and maximizes freedom. THAT is one reason why I welcome AN outsider (not sure Trump will work in that role) who can not just "go along to get along."
Along with this government reform I hope to see a CITIZEN reform (back to civics) where we step back from the lunacy that our politicians have cajoled us into, and to start being actual Citizens, rather than pawns.

The fact is...there COULD theoretically be that potential--to reform the Government across the board, including repealing certain anti-Federalist amendments. However for that to happen, Republicans (who now control just about enough to make this happen) would have to actually BE the principled small-government people that they claim to be around election time.

I think there are two "big lies" that we're told by our politicians. The Left's lie is that they are "for the little guy" and that they will take care of people--instead of creating dependency, which is what they have done.
The Right's big lie is that they are "for smaller government." Really? Exactly where is this happening? There may be a FEW members of Congress who actually adhere to this, but not many. Unfortunately, I also don't see Trump as having any particular leanings in that direction either.

In any case: What we need are citizens willing to adhere to PRINCIPLES and laws and understand the foundation of our nation and how it works and what's actually in our Constitution. They also need to be willing to set aside the political propaganda and start actually talking to each other and hammering out disagreements within the limits of our shared principles (if that still exists).

Oh yes--I will still also mention that it is REQUIRED that we have a Free, and unbiased Press, because not having this undermines everything I've just talked about and keeps us (intentionally) in the mire of propaganda and political manipulation.

KAM



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Nov 30 14:32:36 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper I totally get that! I have no doubt you'll make it!



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Nov 30 14:27:24 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Chris Marlowe: Work week is steady right now, but it will really drop off in the next few weeks. Our business revolves around hiring, and that really slows down around the holidays. Added to that, it's the end of the budget year for many companies and they are out of money to spend on recruiting till Jan. So at this time of year the PTB are trying to whip up the sales force to get as many deals closed as possible in the next two weeks before things really start to slow down.

I have the week between Christmas and New Year's off, so I'm just trying to keep my head down and make it to the 23rd at this point. :-)



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Nov 30 14:20:10 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Wednesday, November 30th 2016 C.E.

We have FOUR (4) Birthdays!


Blossom the tag slaying kitten
Dimples
k8cre8
Tana


Happy Birthday from the Bronze
to Blossom the tag slaying kitten, Dimples, k8cr8, Tana



Wesley: Illyria can be...difficult. Testing her might be hard without getting someone seriously hurt. Angel: We'll make Spike do it. Wesley: Good.'Underneath'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Nov 30 14:19:02 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Deadguy: It's a just big crater. Over-run with gangs on PCP.



^ v
Shan says:
(Wed Nov 30 14:13:30 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Well, we actually know what's at
the site of Sunnydale ... or do we
not talk about the comics?



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Nov 30 14:06:48 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
yay corvus!


deadguy qod

Given the size of the crater,
maybe the new NASA mars
preparation environment?


Happy non-Angel Wednesday!



^ v
Shan says:
(Wed Nov 30 13:57:01 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Well, the blindingly obvious
problem with Brexit is that no-
one knows what they're going to
get. If not done properly, it
could be a definite disaster in
the making.

I wish I knew what 'properly'
was. Actually, scratch that. I'd
settle for the people in charge
knowing what that was. I'm not
convinced that they do.

(Adding insult to injury, for all
I know, at best 'properly' could
just be minimising damage and no
net benefit than remaining in the
EU. I guess we won't know for
years, though if this all goes
through in the end.)



^ v
KAM says:
(Wed Nov 30 13:56:02 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Wed Nov 30 14:14:43 2016
Hello again,

YAY CORVUS

Deadguy QOD
: Spelunking destination?

White Wings: Sure, no problem.

Sudden Interest in the Constitution
With Trump's election, I've been hearing various talk about Federalism, and such, as if a whole group of half-wits just discovered that the President isn't actually a King (despite "I've got a pen and a phone" nonsense), and doesn't have ultimate power. Congratulations, welcome to LIMITED GOVERNMENT that you've insisted doesn't matter for 8 years.

But now Trump's (stupid) comments about Flag burning. NOW the first Amendment matters again. Don't worry about all the various methods used to shut people up--like "trigger warnings, safe spaces (from ideas), labeling anything you dislike "hate speech", etc. NOW, we need to insure that this vital means of free speech (burning flags) is preserved against this horrible tyrant, and enemy of free speech.

As much as I dislike idiots running around burning American Flags (or any really) in childish tantrums, and even though Senator Hillary Clinton herself supported legislation to prevent this, it is in the end something people are free to do. Trump's statements really don't change that, and again...if people actually understood the Constitution would realize the President has no legitimate power to stop them.

But apparently hysterical reactions are what we're going to have for the next 4 years, to everything. This is also something people are free to do, but it strikes me as more "crying wolf" which is in itself harmful, so just keep it up, and enjoy the consequences.

On that: Communism and Nazism.
I think it is rather interesting that people are concerned about neo-nazis, while being very comfortable with communism and communist dictators specifically.
Now to be Clear--I utterly reject Nazism, and these pathetic racial hate groups (no matter what race they come from), but I'd be lying to myself if I didn't admit that communism has been a horrific source of human suffering. The nazi regimes death toll was horrific, and we defeated them, and anyone adhering to that idiocy deserves scorn.
So, why aren't we also disgusted by communism whose regimes have exceeded the death tools of even the Nazis, and who have spread human suffering.
We've got morons running around wearing Che Guevara shirts and praising Castro as if they're some friendly heroes, as opposed to brutal dictators, and mass murderers.
So, think about how you'd react to someone wearing a Hitler shirt, next time you see someone wearing a Che shirt. They're both the same sort of moron in my book.

KAM



^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Wed Nov 30 13:49:49 2016 108.39.244.205) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for corvus!

yay corvus!

today's deadguy memorial angel wednesday question is brought to you by:

the u.c. sunnydale reunion committee - not for the feint of heart

what do you think now exists at the former site of sunnydale?


Happy non-Angel Wednesday!



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Wed Nov 30 13:17:23 2016 68.53.101.208) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard, Shan--Then given
the Brexit vote, and our own
presidential election results, shame
on any politician who takes anything
for granted ;)



^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Wed Nov 30 12:57:54 2016 199.127.148.10) [Edit/Delete]
Thanks for yesterday's birthday wishes.



^ v
Shan says:
(Wed Nov 30 11:33:39 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard

Who are we talking about here?

"I am not following that link. I
will not be made nauseous. It
was bad enough that he
gloated over having had no scandals
in his administration. "



^ v
Shan says:
(Wed Nov 30 11:25:25 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Please correct me if I'm wrong
but in terms of Brexit, David
Cameron was believed to have
offered the vote on Brexit or not
in an attempt to outflank the
Eurosceptic wing of his party.

He'd already pulled it off once
with the Scotland referendum so
it's presumed he'd be a right
chancer and try his luck again.
You know what they say about
gambling.

Anyway, it clearly blew up in his
face. It seems like no-one either
for or against it actually
expected Brexit to pass given how
wrongfooted they all were on both
sides.

David Cameron had said he'd
trigger Article 50 if the vote
passed the very next day,
apparently. It did, he didn't and
then he quit and pushed off in
very short order.

It's quite possible that he's
going to go down as the worst
Prime Minister since Eden
launched an attack on the Suez
Canal back in the 50s.

The reason I say this is because
it's thought in many quarters
that he called this whole
business as part of internal
party politics and to win a
battle over other people in his
own party members.

Seems likely he didn't want this
outcome but never made the
necessary effort to guarantee the
result he wanted. Just having a
majority of the people who voted
deciding the result as opposed to
a minimum percentage of the total
population, or a percentage
threshold of the voters (55%
leave or whatever) or both was
highly negligent.

To add, the campaigning to defend
membership of the EU was clearly
inadequate. I'm not arguing the
UK leaving the EU per se is a bad
thing (as I don't know) but as it
is was presented, what kind of
departure and what that results
in was never really presented or
countered.

So, what everyone gets could be
much worse than what they have
now (at least that's a known
quantity). Some sort of plan as
to what sort of exit the Leave
faction was promising should have
been a condition of the
referendum. For as it is, the
expectations of everyone who
voted Leave are going to be a
wide and presumably conflicting
expectations

In summary, things are likely to
get worse before they get better.
They're also possibly never going
to get better (as in back to this
level) after the damage this has
done due to the ineptitude of its
execution.



^ v
white wings says:
(Wed Nov 30 07:11:50 2016 70.112.135.184) [Edit/Delete]
Yay buffyrat!

Happy Birthday Anoimois, Arrow6, Beldin's Dad, DaddyCatALSO, elfie, Goddess
Minerva, Laurence, Midnight, Ski, Southern Girl, and Tessa!


abt - LOL! We are still related after all. "Tyranny of the majority",
"muzzling free speech". It sounds very familiar. Didn't your politicians learn
the essential truth of passing notes, that if you can't conceal them, you'd better
be careful of the contents? What do they teach them in schools these days?
Although "have your cake and eat it" is as good and succinct a description of the
wished for terms as one could have. Does one have to even say that the French
are likely to be difficult? See La Marseillaise. *g*

Your question of what the MPs should do is really interesting. I don't envy them.
If each MP votes according to his electorate's views, you could be turning the MPs
into the equivalent of our electors, with similar results. I'm very glad to not
be in their position.

wolfguard - I don't see the Economist that much these days. I've seen
other articles that were passed to me, but not this one that you have quoted. I
am sorely disappointed in them. I'm not surprised by the American media, but I
wonder even more what the Economist was hoping to gain from Hillary.

wolfguard (2) LOL at the Russians. They are indeed pervasive if they are
obstructing Christopher Marlowe's emailing. Although we do not know what
she is up to ...

Maverick - I am not following that link. I will not be made nauseous. It
was bad enough that he gloated over having had no scandals in his administration.
I don't think we've ever had very successful border control. For a long time, it
didn't seem an intolerable problem - I mean up to late in the last century. I
think that Bush had a pipe dream that if there were a viable guest worker program
to mitigate the immigration laws, and if things like NAFTA could improve the
economy to the south enough that people didn't want to move north, and if
Mexico would control the immigration of outsiders across the border, then the
situation would resolve itself, and illegal immigration would just remain a
part of the landscape. But there were other factors, such as Mexico turning into
another Columbia, and it just couldn't work. Then the current administration
wanted open borders, and it's not a good situation.

KAM - *blink* What did I think? *blink* Well, for one thing, I was up
too late, and confused a post from Maverick with one from you. I
apologize. Can I plead Oldtimer's? I have noted in the offending post that I
should have responded to him. I think I noted it clearly. I'm up too late
again.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Nov 30 04:50:08 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I should have known!



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Nov 30 04:44:17 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Lostinamerica,

I believe Cameron promised the referendum as a sop to the Euroskeptics in
the Tory party and he did so after assessing the odds were strongly
against a leave vote. His assessment was at odds with reality - or perhaps
it was spot-on when he made the decision, but matters changed between the
decision and the vote.

Just was catching up on some reading, again from The Economist. The
following is from a "Bagehot" column dating November 12th 2016. It's
titled "The machine sputters", summary: "Unsexy as it may seem, Britain
needs a big constitutional debtate"

"...Parliament is sovereign and the executive's latitude - known as the
"royal prerogative" - has limits.

It was a struggle over where these limits lie that recently saw Theresa
May improbably accused of a bid to "reverse the result of the English
civil war"comment The prime minister wields the royal
prerogative in the monarch's name and wants to evoke Article 50 of the EU
treaty, the legal route to Brexit, without consulting Parliament. But the
High Court ruled against her and she announced her intention to appeal.
Geoffrey Robertson, a human-rights lawyer, accused her of "claiming the
power of the Crown could override the will of the Parliament"..."



Comment - Britain does not have a single written constitution such as the
US. Rather there are series of documents, traditions, and customs which
set a framework on how the principles and processes through which British
government is guided and works. These are going to be put through the
wringer by the implementation of the Brexit vote.


cc: abt, Shan



comment The English civil war established Parliament as
sovereign over the monarch.



WG



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Nov 30 04:01:02 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

One word - Russians.

*g*

WG



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Nov 30 03:15:57 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Wed Nov 30 03:30:30 2016
wolfguard I spent over an hour trying to figure out why I was
getting an error message in trying to send an email to one of my email
lists. The error message was super cryptic and the 'help' page wasn't
any help at all.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Nov 30 01:34:27 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlower,

As am I. *g*

WG



^ v
Maverick says:
(Wed Nov 30 01:28:40 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Wed Nov 30 01:30:05 2016
KAM, Christopher Marlowe: Paper Records Drop in Global Temperatures as El Niño Warming Ends And what caused the El Niño warming in the South Pacific? Well, it's on the Pacific Ring of Fire volcano sites.


Birthday Happies to DaddyCatALSO


Maverick


Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas




^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Nov 30 00:55:16 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I am aroundabouts!



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Wed Nov 30 00:15:59 2016 174.195.137.25) [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday DaddyCatALSO!



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Nov 29 23:47:07 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: Who did the First Evil appear as in the episode 'Amends'?
Answer: Daniel, Margaret, Travis or Jenny Calendar

Trivia Second Evil: notsoShyGirl
Trivia Last Evil: Agent Cooper



^ v
Maverick says:
(Tue Nov 29 23:34:53 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
white wings: See, it's not hard to detect when Obama's doing bad things when things he's doing are not reported in the Mainstream Press AND no one in the Administration will talk about what he's doing. In the link he has shut down a successful border patrol program (that IS fully funded by congress) that HAS interdicted people and drugs in large quantities. But Obama doesn't want to do that. And his kiss@ss at DHS Jeh Johnson just plays dumb about it.


Maverick


Carol of the Bells




^ v
KAM says:
(Tue Nov 29 21:13:34 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Hello again,

Christopher Marlowe: Well, we've had a rather warm fall, but last week it dipped low, which was a bit of a shock, with no time to acclimate. It is a bit warmer this week, but the dreary skies and such are here, so I expect Winter to be arriving in earnest very soon.

KAM
Ty King Fan



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Nov 29 20:44:15 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper How is your work week going? Mine has been very slow, despite it being the end of the month.



^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Nov 29 20:11:55 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: The First often takes the guise of Colonel Sanders.

With his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Nov 29 19:56:59 2016 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
White Wings,

The Economist detest President-elect Trump.


Excerpts from the November 5th 2016's endorsement of Clinton ...

"A quarter of Americans born since 1980 believe that democracy is a bad form of government, many more than did so 20 years ago. If the two main parties had set about designing a contest to feed the doubts of young voters, they could not have done better than this year's presidential campaign. The vote, on November 8th, is now in sight, yet many Americans would willingly undergo the exercise all over again - with two new candidates. Of course that it not on offer: the next president will be either Donald Trump of Hillary Clinton.

The choice is not hard. The campaign has provided daily evidence that Mr Trump would be a terrible president. He has exploited America's simmering racial tensions. His experience, temperament and character make him horribly unsuited to be being the head of state of the nation that the rest of the democratic world looks to for leadership, the commander-in-chief of the world's most powerful armed forces and the person who controls America's nuclear deterrent.

That alone would stop us from casting a vote, if we had one, for Mr Trump. As it happens, he has a set of policies to go with his personality. A Trump government would cut taxes for the richest while imposing trade protection that would raise prices for the poorest ... His ideas on revenue and spending are an affront to statistics. We would sooner had endorsed Richard Nixon - even had we known how he would later come to grief.

Our vote, then, goes to Hillary Clinton. Those who reject her simply because she is a Clinton, and because they detest the Clinton machine, are not paying attention to the turpitude of the alternative...

...Like Mr Trump, Mrs Clinton has ideas we disagree with. Her tax plan is fiddly. Her opposition to the trade deal with Asia that she once championed is disheartening. The scale of these defects, though, is measured in tiny increments compared with what Mr Trump proposes. Only plenty of other questions are those of the pragmatic centre of the Democratic party ... In every other sense, however, Mrs Clinton is a self-confessed incrementalist. She believes in the power of small changes compounded over time to bring about larger ones. An inability to sound as if she is offering an overnight transformation is one of the things that makes her a bad campaigner...

... a prosaic style combined with gradualism and hard work could make for a more successful presidency than her critics allow...

... She rightly argued for involvement early in Syria. She has a more straightforward view of American's capacity to do good; her former boss is more alert to the dangers of good intentions ...


... The best that can be said of Mr Trump is that his candidacy is a symptom of the popular desire for a political revival. Every outrage and every broken taboo is taken as evidence that he would break the system in order that, overseen by a properly conservative Supreme Court, those who come after him might put something better in its place ...

... To hope that any good can come from Mr Trump's wrecking job reflects a narcissistic belief that compromise in politics is a dirty word and foolhardy confidence that, after a spell of chaos and demolition, you can magically unite the nation and fix what is wrong. (END)


The issue cover show a raised hand with a drawing of Clinton's face on the index finger - crossed over the middle finger.


In general, The Economist has a British liberal slant - understanding "liberal" in the England is akin to a moderate conservative in the US (personal freedoms, market economy, limited government)



WG



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Nov 29 18:24:35 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
KAM In less political talk, has winter settled in for you yet?



^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Tue Nov 29 16:53:00 2016 96.87.54.73) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl
The First tries to drive Angel to kill Buffy by reminding him of his "true"
nature (Angelus) and it sets about accomplishing this by appearing to him as
some of his victims: Daniel, Margaret, Travis and Jenny Calendar



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Tue Nov 29 15:45:34 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: Who did the First Evil appear as in the episode 'Amends'?



^ v
KAM says:
(Tue Nov 29 14:25:55 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Hello again,

YAY BUFFYRAT

Deadguy QOD
: Well, Willow's non-Christmas participation seemed to be an attempt to please her father, so who knows what she might do now.

White Wings: What part do you think I'm kidding about?

KAM



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Tue Nov 29 14:23:16 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Tuesday, November 29th 2016 C.E.

We have ELEVEN(11) Birthdays!


Anoimois
Arrow6
Beldin's Dad
DaddyCatALSO
elfie
Goddess Minerva
Laurence
Midnight
Ski
Southern Girl
Tessa

Happy Birthday from the Bronze
to Anoimois, Arrow6, Beldin's Dad, DaddyCatALSO, elfie, Goddess Minerva, Laurence, Midnight, Ski, Southern Girl, Tessa



Now, I can hold a note for a long time...actually I can hold a note forever. But eventually that's just noise. It's the change we're listening for. The note coming after, and the one after that. That's what makes it music.Host, 'Happy Anniversary'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Nov 29 14:04:02 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
yay buffyrat!

deadguy qod I think Dawn would be the doing the most decorating. I envision a either a traditional tree with strings of popcorn/cranberries or perhaps a more modern LED tree!

Happy Non-Buffy Tuesday!



^ v
abt says:
(Tue Nov 29 13:54:20 2016 84.9.76.169) [Edit/Delete]
white wings - "That's the charming thing about you guys. You voted, and everyone expects that to be respected. Over here the plan is to find some way to overturn it, go around it, repeat it, whatever."

The debate now is the terms of Brexit.

John Major former Tory PM wants Remain voters taken in consideration in the terms of Brexit. Tony Blair has stuck his oar in too. There is a remainer group called Open Britain .

I saw this today
A handwritten note, carried by an aide to the Tory vice-chair Mark Field after a meeting at the Department for Exiting the European Union, could be seen to say: Whats the model? Have your cake and eat it.

And in a further embarrassment, it added "French likely to be most difficult".


wolfguard - yeah, I think the court are sending it to parliament. Hence a newspaper dubbing them Enemies of the People.
Shan - what do the MPs do? My MP supported Remain. IIRC this constituency had a majority for Remain. What should he do in a parliament vote?



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Tue Nov 29 13:17:56 2016 68.53.101.208) [Edit/Delete]
Good Lord, will someone close
Trump's Twitter account?


Shan, wolfguard--I knew the
Brexit vote wasn't binding, but it
was close--I Googled, and the vote
was 53.4 percent to leave versus
46.6 percent to stay. A majority
vote to leave, but not an
overwhelming majority. Because
the vote was so close, could they
ignore the results and decide to
stay in the EU? They aren't doing
that, but could they? I wonder
what the political ramifications
would be. It's a dangerous
precedent to set, though, to hold
a vote and then not follow the
will of the majority.


DaddyCatALSO--Oh, I was
just kidding ;)


Yay! buffyrat!



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DaddyCatALSO says:
(Tue Nov 29 12:54:23 2016 199.127.148.10) [Edit/Delete]
lostinamerica Keep in mind the USA has a written Constituion making sucha "second election" illegal at *best*, more realistically impossible. The UK has no such document.



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YayOfTheDay says:
(Tue Nov 29 12:24:59 2016 108.39.244.205) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Tue Nov 29 12:31:04 2016
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for buffyrat

yay buffyrat!

today's deadguy memorial buffy tuesday question is brought to you by:

the sunnyedale christmas store - we can at least pretend it's cold

assuming it is not willow, which scooby does the most decorating for christmas?


Happy Non-Buffy Tuesday!



^ v
Maverick says:
(Tue Nov 29 06:54:25 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
white wings: I thought you might enjoy Obama sets new record for regulations. See, he owns the past records for 7 of the highest 8 years. The problem is, of course, that HIS regulations are largely job killers. And he still has around a month and a half to go in office. We're doomed--Doomed, I say. Unless Trump can reverse this trend.


Maverick


Christmas Is Coming




^ v
white wings says:
(Tue Nov 29 05:07:38 2016 70.112.135.184) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Wed Nov 30 06:57:24 2016
Yay tiggy!

Happy Birthday East Side Kid, Lady of Buffydom, Lady Pol, Myst, Perchewit, quinne, Rogue, and scoobie2!

abt - As far as I can tell, the KKK is a pitiful group that holds rallies and trades on the fear it once inspired to irritate people. Let us speak no more about them. *ptooey* The white supremacist/neo-nazi groups are more serious because every now and then they produce some vicious idiot who will do some real harm before being caught and stopped. As a great danger, they are at the level of your basic psychotic killer or schoolboy wannabe mass murderer. While that is serious and merits vigilance, it's relatively isolated. I'm pretty sure that we lose more people to gang violence and radical Islamic terrorists (organized or self-radicalized) these days.

LOL! at the French being more "revolting". But they do seem faster to man the barricades and spend a summer's protest torching innocent cars. But consider the Marseillaise it is not a peaceful anthem. It sets the tone. *g*

Trump may be like Scrooge before the visitations in terms of character and sharp dealings. As it happens, quite a number of our presidents have had appalling characters. The curious thing is that Trump is a successful builder in many places where you can't operate successfully without greasing palms, and that aspect was never pointed out by Hillary, and never seriously pursued by the media. They just trotted out cant phrases like "deplorable, racist, misogynistic, Islamophobic, homophobic" and kept on repeating them. Perhaps that is because actually looking at Trump would have revealed Hillary and other people who prefer to be in the shadows as being on the other end of the transactions. I don't know. He may still be quite an effective president.

I went out today, and where yesterday there were lit wreaths around and Christmas trees inside houses on my street, today we had lights draped from eaves, lights on bushes, tons of stuff. And some houses that look like total professional jobs are done by the homeowners, because I've seen them do it. It makes me feel inadequate. *g*

That's the charming thing about you guys. You voted, and everyone expects that to be respected. Over here the plan is to find some way to overturn it, go around it, repeat it, whatever. That's not just presidential elections.

KAM - I don't disagree. Trump outplayed Hillary because he used her same techniques of division, simplistic sound bytes, and demonizing the opponent, and he ultimately appealed to a broader section of the populace. I think he's the only one of the field who could have succeeded. I have no idea if he'll oversee a retrenchment of government. It's possible, if only because he is interested in the bottom line, and government is expensive. Government also knows how to circle the wagons and sit and sulk, and justify its existence by the tasks it has created. I hope he knows how to cut the Gordian knot. Firing people runs into all kinds of obstacles. But if you reorganize and RIF, anything goes, and government all of a sudden becomes pathetically eager to please.

EDIT 11/29 to change response from KAM(2) to Maverick - You're kidding, now, right? I said that where the current leadership is taking us is no great mystery. Whether or not that destination is desirable depends on where one stands. People that I work with and/or regard as friends seem to think it's just fine (Texas government may be Red at the top, but the rank and file are mostly blue). I do not. I don't know if it's being guided by the spirit of Jimmy Carter, Bill Ayers, the original Richard Daley, the vengeful Chumash spirit, or all four. I don't want it. I sure as heck don't want universities that offer play doh and coloring books to disappointed students, or who suggest not wearing cowboy boots and hats on campus lest they trigger the Native Americans. *ptooey* It's just too humiliating. The rest is frightening. But at this point, all I have is hope that there is a way out. I don't have past performance as proof.

wolfguard - The Economist is not a neutral party when it comes to Trump. It makes me wonder what stake they had in Hillary. *g*



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wolfguard says:
(Tue Nov 29 04:53:36 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

I'd never bet you on it. *g*

WG



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Shan says:
(Tue Nov 29 04:47:50 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
I should have said nothing
legal stopping them from
completely ignoring the referendum.

Politically, well ... that's
another story.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Nov 29 03:49:10 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I would make a fair
bet that Trump would take issue with
'The Economist' on that.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Nov 29 02:51:07 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Shan,

Thanks for the clarification.

WG



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Nov 29 02:45:08 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Finally home!



^ v
Shan says:
(Tue Nov 29 02:27:25 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
The Brexit vote by law was just
advisory (you can't bind parliament
by a referendum).

If they wanted to, they could quite
legally just completely ignore it.

They won't but there's nothing
stopping them from doing so.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Tue Nov 29 01:12:42 2016 70.198.0.159) [Edit/Delete]
Should be home soon I am currently
at a fundraiser.



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Nov 29 01:12:32 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
This week's The Economist did a story on the Trump organization's
worth. Here's the summary ...

Assets: ~ $4 billion

- Five buildings represent 50% of the total asset value.

- The Trump "brand" comprises 11%-14% of total asset value.


Annual Revenues: ~$490 million


Description: ~ Small, middle-aged, domestic property company



WG



^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Nov 29 00:58:26 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Lostinamerica,

The Brexit vote was a referendum. While it maybe politically impossible to
hold another referendum1, the referendum itself may not be
legally binding. The uncertainty following the vote to 'Leave' is caused
in part by it not being an election. It was, in effect, a one-time uber
poll with expectations. If "Remain" had won, then the pundits and populace
would debate what it meant for the future - more of the same. Few people
seemed to have explored what would happen if "Remain" won and that had to
be explored. What steps have to be taken for Britain to end its membership
in the EU?

The first required step is for the UK to formally notify the EU of its
intentions. Once done the clock starts ticking 730 (obligatory Buffy).
During this time Britain would have to work out the details with the other
EU members. I believe after the two year period the matter goes to the EU
to finalize - without the UK's participation (as I understand it)

1 A little over a year ago, Scotland had a remain/leave
referendum which the remain won, by I believe a small margin. Scotland is
now talking about having another referendum. I believe some in the UK want
to vote on whatever specifics are decided upon to affect the going of
ways. I imagine the referendum could be seen as a vote on whether or not
to get divorced, but that's all was decided - to divorce. Now what terms?


WG



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Mon Nov 28 23:14:24 2016 68.53.101.208) [Edit/Delete]
abt--I'd think the EU would make it hard on you in order to
"dissuader les autres"--can't have countries dropping out left and right.


wolfguard--If there is a second Brexit vote, soon after people here will be
asking for a second U.S. presidential vote ;) Sorry people, but once a vote is
taken, it's taken--you need to think seriously about what and whom you're voting
for.

cc abt, KAM


Yay! tiggy!



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Nov 28 22:30:17 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Alcoholic Pursuits

Category: Beer
Question: What is the first beer to be brewed at the White House?
Answer: White House Honey Brown Ale

Trivia On Tap: notsoShyGirl
Trivia In a Can: Maverick



^ v
Maverick says:
(Mon Nov 28 21:35:46 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Barry's Bitter Brewski


abt: Here you go The Islamization of the UK (with Tommy Robinson). Here in the U.S., Obama has sneakily been importing Muslims and placing them in small towns in out of the way places, where they don't fit in and cause problems (because they believe that Rape is their birthright) but Barry's press corp gives this little coverage. Hillary wanted to import this cancer at a 500 times greater rate so it can metastasize throughout the country. Hillary, methinks, has no idea of how harmful and dangerous Islam (and Shariah) is to our U.S. Constitution and our way of life. Obama knows and is trying to punish the U.S. for Christian success. Okay, an attack at Ohio State University. Ohio State just beat the University of Michigan in one of the greatest rivalries in college football. My first thought was: I hope some mental U of M Student was not responsible. It turns out some Somali immigrant had run some people down with his car and then got out and started stabbing them. And the Big Question, now, is what was his motive? Remember Marshall McLuhan who said the Media is the Message. In this case the Religion is the Reason.


white wings: You're kidding, right? Obama has been flushing this country down the toilet and Hillary wants to be the next attendant, just as long as she's in charge. Are you one of those who thinks Obama is actually trying to be helpful? He just wants to trick people into thinking he's trying. Check out: The fake faint. Do you believe he's improved the economy as the Unemployment Rate has come down? Look how he changed the calculation. How about how Obamacare has changed the hours people work per week? Understand this?


Christopher Marlowe: Iman invited to speak in Florida says it's compassionate to kill gays.


Maverick


All I Want For Christmas Is You (Mariah Carey version)




^ v
wolfguard says:
(Mon Nov 28 19:35:40 2016 71.56.125.67) [Edit/Delete]
abt,

I've read that some people are proposing a second Brexit vote, because they believe a significant number of people thought "Leave" was destined to lose so thought it an opportunity to vote "Leave" to express their dissatisfaction with the status quo. Oops. Can I redo it? Also the people wanting to "Remain" hope some "Leave" voters are experiencing remorse.

Didn't the court rule that any Brexit treaty had to have Parliament's approval?


WG



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Agent Cooper says:
(Mon Nov 28 18:48:10 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
You guys know this whole election was just to tee things up for Bruce Campbell in 2020, right?

Start getting ready now. The Campbell Express is coming......



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Nov 28 17:56:20 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
abt How is May doing so far, Brexit aside?



^ v
KAM says:
(Mon Nov 28 17:15:33 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Mon Nov 28 18:49:24 2016
Hello again,

"Regional (Political) Party"
I'm hearing this in a few places about the Democrat party. Oddly, I heard the exact same thing about the Republicans a few years ago, and now, the Republicans are again poised to hold The Presidency, both houses of Congress and a majority of State houses and Governors.
That also isn't likely to last, perhaps not even short term. I am not sure why people keep trying to make these sorts of proclamations. Undoubtedly, every single thing that Trump does will continue to be portrayed as a negative by a media that largely hates him, as a matter of existence.
Don't get me wrong--I'd MUCH rather have an adversarial press, than the slavering fans that we've had during the Obama administration. However, I have no expectation of good journalism suddenly reappearing.

Point is...Democrats aren't going to lay down and go away, NOR become a "regional party" unless you consider the entire East and West Coasts as "regional."

ETA: What IS true is that the majority of Democrats in Congress come from certain regions, they might just have easily have won the Presidency in a national election.

KAM



^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Mon Nov 28 15:57:47 2016 96.87.54.73) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl
White House Honey Brown Ale is the first beer known to have been brewed in the
White House



^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Mon Nov 28 15:52:04 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Alcoholic Pursuits

Category: Beer
Question: What is the first beer to be brewed at the White House?



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Nov 28 15:00:40 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
yay tiggy!


Goodbye Blue Monday!



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Mon Nov 28 14:01:25 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Monday, November 28th 2016 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!


East Side Kid
Lady of Buffdom
Lady Pol
Myst
Perchewit
quinne_
Rogue
scoobie2

Happy Birthday from the Bronze
to East Side Kid, Lady of Buffydom, Lady Pol, Myst, Perchewit, quinne, Rogue, scoobie2



On my seventh birthday, I wanted a toy fire truck, and I didn't get it, and you were real nice about it, and then the house next door burnt down, and then real firetrucks came, and for years I thought you set the fire for me. And if you did, you can tell me!Xander, 'The Replacement''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



^ v
KAM says:
(Mon Nov 28 14:01:04 2016 173.161.108.1) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Mon Nov 28 14:02:26 2016
Good Morning Everyone,

YAY TIGGY

White Wings
: Well, politicians have sold people on the notion that they are going to make people's individual lives better, providing them with X, Y or Z (tangible or not). Well, that's never been something they intended to do, and they've sold people--that they've neatly divided into groups on that bill of goods.
Unfortunately, I don't see this election as really changing that, which is why I think it is more important than ever to stop placing our faith in politicians for our personal well-being.
People frantic over Trump's supposed future-crime oppressing people...well, they've bought into this false notion hook, line and sinker. There are two things to realize.
1) The politician you think is your friend and advocate...isn't.
2) The politician your "Friend" convinces you is your enemy...probably isn't either.
3) They're all politicians and expecting them to act as something other than that is going to lead to disappointment.

People are concerned about their rights...good, that's something to always be concerned about, but they see the government as the SOURCE of those "rights" and that is just a false notion that sets the stage for Government abuse. What government gives, government can take away and too many people haven't wised up to that reality, and their ignorance threatens everyone's rights.

Government has a very vital place in society, and I'm not idealistic (or stupid) enough to think that some anarchist paradise is EVER possible. So, we need government to provide basic order and a foundation of a stable society, and to keep the barbarians outside the gates (so to speak). Beyond that, I want them small, efficient and generally quiet. We're very far from that.

National vs State or Local Government
My talk about government almost always refers to an over-powered National government--as compared to State government. I should just note that there is nothing inherently true about that. A State government could also be abusive to the people, so what's important to recall is that a BALANCE of power, between government(s) and the people is what's necessary.
We've seen a steady increase in national government power, so that is my primary concern, and what I think requires curtailing.

abt: I came into the Brexit thing quite late, but it seems to me if you have a vote, then you should adhere to that vote.
Of course, people seem to have a problem with that concept when what they want loses.

KAM



^ v
abt says:
(Mon Nov 28 13:48:43 2016 84.9.76.169) [Edit/Delete]
Well I am gutted that Ed Balls is out of Strictly Come Dancing.

lostinamerica - hard Brexit, soft Brexit - the EU want to make it hard on us, "pour encourager les autres" but I'm not sure how well that will work out for them, if other countries e.g. France see us getting a hard deal, will they knuckle under, or will they go far right themselves? Historically speaking the French are far more revolting than us. I wonder what Merkel is thinking now.

white wings - so the KKK are a spent force now?
No Christmas decorations in the houses here yet, although obviously the shops have started.
I think we have to Brexit now we have voted for it.

Maverick - I read Trump has not behaved that well in Scotland. I don't think I have found anything so far to make me think he has a good character. Maybe he will do good things, we will see. Black Friday/Cyber Monday over here too now. Can you relink Tommy Robinson - is it on youtube? I read this earlier this year link. I do think I would agree with one of the comments at the end, that these groups are sometimes a defensive reaction because people see things like "kill Salman Rushdie", or the murder of Asad Shah, or way back Ray Honeyford.
link[/]



^ v
YayOfTheDay says:
(Mon Nov 28 13:03:10 2016 108.39.244.205) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for tiggy!

yay tiggy!


Goodbye Blue Monday!



^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Mon Nov 28 11:58:32 2016 68.53.101.208) [Edit/Delete]
abt--Yes, it seems you're
stuck with it, for better or worse ;)

Surely there's a way to exit the EU
in the least painful way possible?



^ v
white wings says:
(Mon Nov 28 06:21:26 2016 70.112.135.184) [Edit/Delete]
abt - *waves back* It is possible that some people have been dragging out Christmas decorations (or resting from it). I've noticed that a lot of houses around me have suddenly taken on holiday cheer. People could also have been traveling or doing laundry after getting home.

It's hard to believe that anyone is concerned about the KKK or their attitudes aside from the unfortunate cops who have to enforce their right to free speech. Their moth eaten sheets strike terror in no one's hearts these days. I expect the African American community knows pretty well where its most serious concerns lie, better than any outsider could tell them. They have the same problem as the rest of us - on the one hand is a party whose policies are no great mystery and on the other, a party that makes promises and may or may not intend or be able to deliver on them, and if they do, they might not work. Do you choose the devil, or the deep blue sea, the frying pan, or the fire? To Brexit or not? *g*



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Mon Nov 28 03:28:38 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I think I've found a new writer to look into. Gary Younge, a Briton who has done several books on America. I caught a discussion by him about his latest Another Day in the Death of America but some of his other work interests me more.



^ v
Maverick says:
(Mon Nov 28 00:07:12 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
abt1: Anyone who understands anything about economics and that we are a Capitalist country should be happy about the election results. This should could also include African-Americans. But, alas, the Democrats foster their own line-up of whiny hate groups. The Democrats teach them that they cannot do anything for themselves and that they should envy and resent successful people in this country and try to extort money from them. Donald Trump's election says nothing in particular about race. He campaigned in black areas and challenged black voters to think about what their habit of constantly voting for Democrats (who take them for granted and like them to be a handy voting bloc in their urban plantations) has gotten them. He basically asked them, "What have you got to lose?" I think he could make life better for them, and that he WILL actually try. Whether this will work (they're pretty entrenched with pettiness and hate) is up in the air, but he WILL NOT ignore them.


abt2: How's the CFS/ME? Have you yet considered a FT? Or does your Healthcare System make that impossible? BTW, the Muslims in the U.S. are not happy with the election results. They were counting on Hillary to bring them in in even greater quantities. The Democrats are yet to study how and why the Muslims have taken over England. Our Democrats are always short on understanding. Have you looked at the video I linked you to of Tommy Robinson? Brexit may be your only hope to stave off the complete collapse of Christian England which would be a tragedy that maybe only Shakespeare would appreciate.


abt3: BTW, the Friday after Thanksgiving (which is traditionally on a Thursday) is Black Friday, a day with all kinds of super sales leading up to Christmas. Maybe they're shopping.


Maverick


O Come, O Come, Immanuel




^ v
Shan says:
(Sun Nov 27 23:41:26 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
Sitting on the couch.



^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Nov 27 23:33:02 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
abtI'm not sure.. it's a Sunday and a Thanksgiving weekend. Probably folks are still celebrating/family/shopping.



^ v
abt says:
(Sun Nov 27 22:41:12 2016 84.9.76.169) [Edit/Delete]
Where is everyone?



^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sun Nov 27 16:42:11 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Sunday, November 27th 2016 C.E.

We have ONE (1) Birthdays!



Kathrine Anna (SweePer & FASTEDDIE's daughter)

Happy Birthday from the Bronze to Kathrine Anna!



No. And yes. It's always sudden.Tara, 'The Body'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Nov 27 15:15:44 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
good morning beta!



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abt says:
(Sun Nov 27 15:05:27 2016 84.9.76.169) [Edit/Delete]
ChristopherMarlowe, Maverick - it cannot be easy for African-Americans to see the KKK happy at the result of the election.

wolfguard, ChristopherMarlowe - I have yet to see The Crown. But I can apparently get a free month trial of Netflix, so I will do that and watch it. (I also plan to watch season 4 of Orphan Black, cc Shan) I think some of the actors in it have played royals before. Be interested to see Queen Mary, as IIRC she was handpicked by Queen Victoria to be a Queen Consort.

ChristopherMarlowe - re LGBT, I have read much recently of problems with MTF trans activists causing difficulties for women. Also, those were some good turkey facts, I shall look out for the poop.

lostinamerica - previous Prime Ministers have been talking about a second Brexit vote. But if we don't Brexit I don't see it ending well, that's exactly like telling people their vote counts for nothing, and if you have no vote then what? cc KAM

waves to white wings



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lostinamerica says:
(Sun Nov 27 13:38:24 2016 68.53.101.208) [Edit/Delete]
Shan--I read that, it was
very good :)


OldManFan--Good for you!


wolfguard--Thanks for the
tips! I suspect my book club will
continue to favor historical
novels, though :(


Belated Yay! Irene Adler!



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white wings says:
(Sun Nov 27 01:49:39 2016 70.112.135.184) [Edit/Delete]
Happy Birthday dob, black magick, Fangs, Jennie,~mere~, Psyche, and redhead !


R.I.P. Ron Glass - you will be missed.



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sun Nov 27 00:51:22 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
RIP Ron Glass...a class actor all the way around.



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Maverick says:
(Sat Nov 26 20:13:32 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe: In a rational world we need some kind of objective proof before making allegations about people. For instance if I say Christopher Marlowe is a thief, I should have a video tape of you stealing something or there should be a legal case where you were convicted of theft, etc. - not just some nebulous allegations. (LGBT) The greatest physical threat your LGBT friends have are from Muslims, whom Obama keeps sneaking into the country and whom Hillary wanted to increase their immigration of by a factor of 500 Times. It was a Muslim man who killed 50 LGBT people (and wounded another 53) in the nightclub in Orlando. This really happened. His FAITH commanded him to do this. ISIS (Muslims) kill them by throwing them off of buildings in Iraq and Syria (there ARE horrible videos of this on the Internet.) In his acceptance speech for his Convention nomination, Donald Trump promised to protect the LGBT community from Muslims and was loudle applauded. The Left (Democrats) claim to be the friends of the LGBT, but look it up historically. The LGBT are USED by Marxists, Communists, Socialists to gain irreversible power (Russia, China, Cuba, Venezuela, etc.) and then they are marginalized (or persecuted.) (Women friends) Look it up. In the U.S. the Republicans Party overwhelmingly voted to give women the vote (19th Amendment) against Democrat opposition. Again, with the Muslims, whom Democrats want to increase by 500% - it's perfectly acceptable in Islam for Muslims to rape women, and who wants to increase their numbers in America? Democrats do. Also it would astonish you at the amount of rapes perpetrated by illegal immigrants coming over our Southern border. The numbers are horrendous but the lack of reporting of this by the Progressive Obama-controlled media is sinful. 30% of inmates in Federal prisons are illegal aliens, and often their crimes were sexual in nature. Rather than to deport them when they get out of prison, Obama, as of late, has been letting them stay here so they can vote Democratic. (African-Americans) Who started the Ku Klux Klan? Democrats. Who passed the 14th and 15th Amendments? Republicans over Democrat opposition. Who passed the Jim Crow Laws in the Southern States? Democrats. Who passed the Civil Rights Acts AND the Voting Rights Acts? Republicans over Democrat opposition. Who addicted blacks to welfare to keep them voting Democratic in Urban Plantations? Democrats. Check out the movie "Hillary's America: The Real History of the Democratic Party" for a review of American history with respect to Blacks (and women.) White supremacists and Trump supporters? Another unsubstantiated smear. Quit repeating this lie. If you have links to actual facts, let me see them; otherwise, you are spreading Hoaxes (see my prior post.) This is one of those lies that must be spread by Progressives to declare their bona fides affiliation as Democrats. I remember for a time that during the campaign Donald Trump was asked, by different reporters, basically the same question every day for a week, and that question was if he repudiated the endorsement he got from David Duke (who no longer is even associated with the Ku Klux Klan, except by the fact-challenged media.) He DID repudiate it every day, BUT the Media took, out of the seven or so, the least-specific repudiation, and re-characterized it as some kind of a grateful acceptance. But, the thing IS, SEE, that, thank heavens, the vast number of the American people have been paying attention and know by now what's going on here, and they didn't fall for THE Progressive lies and they voted FOR Donald Trump. You still are yet to grok (Heinlein) your full significance in this fight for America's hearts and minds and your spot on the learning curve. I have faith in you.


Maverick


All I Want for Christmas is You




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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Nov 26 19:03:16 2016 70.198.43.14) [Edit/Delete]
Small business Saturday!



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Nov 26 15:22:38 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Maverick Oh I care, I care about my GLBT friends, my women friends, my African-American friends. I worry about what white supremacists (also sometimes known as trump-supporters) have done to them or will do to them.



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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Sat Nov 26 15:13:42 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Saturday, November 26th 2016 C.E.

We have SEVEN (7) Birthdays!


dob
~black~magick~
Fangs
Jennie
-mere-
Psyche
redhead


Happy Birthday from the Bronze
to dob, black magick, Fangs, Jennie, mere, Psyche, redhead



Angel: Miss me? Lilah: Only in the sense ofno.'Ground State'''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



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Maverick says:
(Sat Nov 26 07:05:13 2016 69.244.158.94) [Edit/Delete]
Finally: Donald Trump won Michigan by 10,704, the first Republican to win it since George H. W. Bush in 1988.


Jill Stein is a Whack-a-Doodle.


Christopher Marlowe: 15 Recent Hate Crime Hoaxes AND Milo Yiannapoulos (Breitbart's resident Homosexual Conservative) presents: 100 Hate Crime Hoaxes in the last Decade. Claiming victimhood is an actual Liberal/Progressive strategy for achieving one-upsmanship. I'm not surprised you are oblivious to this. How about all the black-on-white-crime that the Mainstream Media does not report in order to concentrate on white-on-black-crime? Do you want to see a list of those? You are being manipulated. Do you care?


Maverick


First Christmas Carol of the Season


I Wonder as I Wander




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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Nov 26 04:50:29 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I should write a story. *g*



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wolfguard says:
(Sat Nov 26 04:32:41 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

One of the queens was a slayer. It's true! *g*

WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Nov 26 04:06:51 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard LOL! The Queen wouldn't have stood any nonsense with Angelus, I bet. *g*



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wolfguard says:
(Sat Nov 26 03:49:43 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sat Nov 26 03:53:12 2016
Christopher Marlowe,

From the trailer linked below ...

~ You understand - the titles they're not the job.

She is the job.

Loving her.

Protecting her.

She is the essence of your duty.


Beat that Angel. *g*


WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Nov 26 02:53:55 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Yes..duty over all.



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wolfguard says:
(Sat Nov 26 02:48:07 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

I saw two and a half episodes, 6-8? In a fictional story, Margaret's desire
to personalize her role would appeal to today's audience. Don't be stodgy.
Yet what Britain needed was a living symbol which meant Elizabeth had to
remove most of herself from her performance of her duty. The Crown was all.

WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Nov 26 02:25:05 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard It's pretty impressive how constrained royalty is, by tradition as well as by the church. I was most impressed with Churchill.



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wolfguard says:
(Sat Nov 26 01:25:07 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

It's a good first place to start.


Shan,

Just today I sat down to a show in progress and was still there three
episodes later. *g*

"The Crown"


WG



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Sat Nov 26 01:18:58 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I hit up the Hugo award list for books to read, sometimes trying to revisit some classics.



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wolfguard says:
(Sat Nov 26 01:10:45 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Sat Nov 26 01:12:47 2016
Lostinamerica,

The first "classic" science fiction novel I read caused me to take six
hours to drive what usually was a four hour trip. I kept stopping to read.
*g*

The Mote in God's Eye by Pournelle and Niven

A science-fiction novel that I've never read, but one that always makes
the lists is Ursula K. LeGuinn's The Left Hand of Darkness

If you google "Hugo Award Winners" or "Nebula Award Winners" you can find
lists of the winners going back years.

Finally, two "Star Trek" novels. The first is Barbara Hambly's
Crossroads. Hambly went on to write novels outside the Trekverse.
The second is John Ford's How much for just the planet?. It is a
High-Camp, Tongue-in-Cheek comedy. Centered on the cover is W.C. Fields.


ETA I read The Man in the High Castle and only remember being
bored. I have seen the first season of the series and was enthralled. *g*


WG



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wolfguard says:
(Sat Nov 26 01:04:53 2016 4.28.180.2) [Edit/Delete]
Testing

WG



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Trivia Girl says:
(Sat Nov 26 00:08:17 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Oops I missed DaddyCatALSO!!!



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Trivia Girl says:
(Fri Nov 25 23:05:19 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: PHobias
Question; What do you fear if you have Belonephobia?
Answer: Pins and needles

Trivia Phobic: Agent Cooper!



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DaddyCatALSO says:
(Fri Nov 25 19:54:06 2016 216.164.173.90) [Edit/Delete]
Turkey *is* poultry.

Belonophobia is fear of sharp
objects. My ex wife had a
trememdound phobia baout
needles,e specially IVs.


My tests showed evrything
basically normal. Which still
elave smy unusual "scheduling"
unexplained.



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Nov 25 18:18:23 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
AGent Cooper Not really close, but a good guess just based on the name. *g*



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Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Nov 25 18:04:47 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Belonephopia is the irrational fear of Oscar Meyer products.



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Trivia Girl says:
(Fri Nov 25 15:55:05 2016 205.141.67.16) [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: PHobias
Question; What do you fear if you have Belonephobia?



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Agent Cooper says:
(Fri Nov 25 15:20:29 2016 199.168.151.175) [Edit/Delete]
Shan - I like Gotham. And I can't recommend "Stranger Things" enough. That was great.



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TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Fri Nov 25 14:08:52 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
Today is Friday, November 25th 2016 C.E.

We have FIVE (5) Birthdays!


Little Phud
Rebecca Lynn
Shelly
Xanderella's Daughter
SoAnya


Happy Birthday from the Bronze
to Little Phud, Rebecca Lynn, Shelly, Xanderella's Daughter, SoAnya



Wesley: And how does your kind define love? Demon: Same as all bodies. Same as everywheres. Love is sacrifice.'Sacrifice''

to be added to the birthday list, please email oldbdeyes@hotmail.com



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ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Fri Nov 25 14:02:27 2016 209.159.254.195) [Edit/Delete]
yay irene adler!


Happy Veterans Day!

OldManFan That is fantastic!



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OldManFan says:
(Fri Nov 25 13:38:16 2016 108.39.244.205) [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe - spent Wednesday stuffing, cooking and carving 8 turkeys (4 at a time) while helping to get the church ready. Yesterday we served a record 1026 meals, 475 delivered. I was making gravy and hauling food to the serving line non-stop and I had a great crew helping me.

OMF



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YayOfTheDay says:
(Fri Nov 25 13:28:56 2016 108.39.244.205) [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for irene adler!

yay irene adler!


Happy Veterans Day!



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Shan says:
(Fri Nov 25 12:57:34 2016 114.75.81.104) [Edit/Delete]
lostinamerica

Do Androids Dream of Electric
Sheep? is a good one, especially if
people have seen Bladerunner ...
because it's quite different
(though there are a few scenes like
the Voight-Kampff test that people
will recognise as those are almost
word for word).


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