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^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Mar 30 02:44:50 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Mar 30 02:49:39 2017
Christopher Marlowe,

Thanks for the link.

Looking back at the Rwanda posts, it may be that the issues between a group
do not have to be major for things to escalate. Rwanda and its neighbor
country, Burundi, may be the two most densely populated countries in Africa. A
French diplomat who had worked in Rwanda said, ~ a few mice in a cage can live
together peacefully, but put to many mice together in a cage and they start
eating each other.

Add the radio broadcasts and other government propaganda - your neighbor is
not your friend. Act quickly!


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Mar 30 02:44:42 2017 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard Sometimes you wonder if the human race should survive at all.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Thu Mar 30 01:05:05 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

Time after time different groups that lived in the same communities, when
stressed or excited, discovered dormant issues. Almost any person of liberal
leanings can find instances of couples of mixed-what-not or communities of
diversity amidst warring societies. In the Nazi-era there were some Germans
who protected fellow Germans who were Jews, but still six million Jews
died. Community bonds may be weaker than one can imagine.

I recall one person who lived in Rwanda before the genocide who said if ten
Rwandans were to stand against a wall and another Rwandan was told to pick
out which ones were Hutu and which Tutsi, perhaps the person would get three
or four correct .... What mattered was what was on your identity card.

In Machete Season, one participant said killing people was easier
than farming. Apparently for many of the killers it was the spoils that
motivated (roofing tin being much coveted). One man said his wife yelled at
him for not "working" hard enough and getting more (men would meet at the
local soccer field and then be trucked out to where there might be Tutsi's
to kill).


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Mar 30 00:44:53 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Thu Mar 30 00:50:22 2017
wolfguard In happier news..Entertainment Weekly is doing a 20th year anniversary retrospective of Buffy the Vampire Slayer


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Thu Mar 30 00:09:54 2017 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I guess I'll have to just saw that we agree to disagree on the interpretation of the account of the Rwanda genocide on the Dead Reckoning. I'm not sure I want to rewatch it again.

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Thu Mar 30 00:00:37 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydales Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: Who was the Rogue Demon Hunter?
Answer: Wesley Wyndham-Pryce

Trivia Hunters: notsoShygirl
Trivia Demon: Agent Cooper

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Mar 29 23:24:28 2017 [Edit/Delete]

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Mar 29 23:12:19 2017 [Edit/Delete]

I can offer little help on Gunn. :(

Christopher Marlowe,

The Hutu and Tutsi had killed each other before 1994. As I remember,
originally the Hutu were farmers and the Tutsi pastoralists. When the
Europeans (Belgians?) took control they favored and/or ruled through the
Tutsi (who I believe were the minority). In time the Hutu revolted and
killed many of the Tutsi and I believe may have afterwards dominated the

The genocide began after a plane carrying the Rwandan president (Hutu) was
shot down. As I remember before or just after the attack the radios were
broadcasting variations of "Kill Tutsi". One specific, ~ The grave is only
half full, who will help us fill it? ~

Rawanda is not the only place in the 1990s where neighbors killed neighbors.
The same was true in Yugoslavia. Once enough people accept a significant
difference exist between people in a community, a difference worth killing
over, then people are often forced to take sides or flee.


^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Wed Mar 29 20:30:03 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Jared did too, but figured it would be unpolitic of him to use those words. So he decided to make what he thought would be a humorous comment about something he hadnt noticed at first, because the womans features were all so harmoniously proportional, but had struck him on second glance. He looked up with a quarter-grin and said, And Ill bet you two enjoyed rubbing noses a lot, huh?

Cutter, with a completely straight face, said, Why, yes, we did, Jared. But there was an odd combination of a twinkle and a glare in his eyes which said, I understand your kind perfectly, boy, since I used to be one. The older mans very noticeable lack of obvious reaction made the disgusted looks which Buffy, Cordelia, and Xander, whom he considered friends, and Oz, whom he didnt, sent his way even more painful to Jared than they normally would have been.

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Wed Mar 29 18:49:00 2017 [Edit/Delete]
ChristopherMarlowe--There are
several books on the Rwandan
genocide, you can probably look up
their reviews and see which ones are
good :)

DaddyCatALSO --Precisely why
I have yet to see Schindler's

Yay! abt!

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Mar 29 17:38:52 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Agent Cooper Excellent answer! I would have loved to have that character on the show.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Wed Mar 29 17:15:25 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl: Constantine.

^ v
notsoShyGirl says:
(Wed Mar 29 15:44:14 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Trivia Girl
Wesley Wyndam-Pryce

^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Mar 29 15:03:20 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydales Trivial Pursuit

Category: Angel
Question: Who was the Rogue Demon Hunter?

^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Wed Mar 29 14:28:59 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe I bought that movie shortly after I got my first DVP and a TV to watch it on (I like Don Cheadle.) It took 7-8 years before I could make myself watch it.

wolfguard So, it boils down to whetehr redemption is helping Buffy, Tara, and the rest deal with the Hellmouth in a world gone mad, or fly off to try a nd build a more survivable community in a more rural area. So I think she'd choose Sunnydale.
But my Texas option makes me wonder; would Gunn be willing to abandon Anne Steele? Since I'm assuming Fred stays with him, that would probably keep the AI bunch in town also. Tnagled web. (and before this I was just wondering what to do to reunite the "engine whisperer" and her doctor husband

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Mar 29 13:30:23 2017 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I think the point was that before the genocide, there didn't seem to be any issues between Hutus and Tutsis and intermarriage wasn't unusual. The example I gave of the killer. He was Hutu and had a Tutsi wife, so the brother-in-law was Tutsi. Were they to round up and attempt to prosecute those who participated, it would have been pretty massive and almost a genocide in itself.

lostinamerica The movie was very powerful and very hard to watch. I didn't know about the book!

^ v
TheBirthdayGnomette says:
(Wed Mar 29 13:23:46 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Today is Wednesday, March 29th 2017 C.E.

We have EIGHT (8) Birthdays!

Caroline Jane (Happy's Childe)
Saint - R.I.P
The Librarian

Happy Birthday from the Bronze, to Avatar, Caroline Jane, helygen, Killow, Tamara, The Librarian, X38!

Well, look who just popped open a fresh can of venom. Xander, 'Choices''

to be added to the birthday list, please email

^ v
YayofTheDay says:
(Wed Mar 29 13:00:42 2017 [Edit/Delete]
let's hear a great big bronze cheer for abt!

yay abt!

Happy non-Angel Wednesday!

^ v
lostinamerica says:
(Wed Mar 29 12:22:16 2017 [Edit/Delete]
ChristopherMarlowe--A good
survivor account of the Rwandan
genocide is Left to Tell by
Immacule Ilibagiza. And I thought
the movie Hotel Rwanda was
very good too.

cc wolfguard

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Mar 29 06:07:59 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

I'm not sure how the program concluded it was not one group killing another group.

"...In just 100 days in 1994, some 800,000 people were slaughtered in Rwanda by ethnic Hutu extremists. They were targeting members of the minority Tutsi community, as well as their political opponents, irrespective of their ethnic origin..." (emphasis added)

Source (BBC)

Also see Machete Season (Amazon)


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Mar 29 04:16:58 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Wed Mar 29 04:17:34 2017
wolfguard I wouldn't be surprised if NPR was. One part of the program focused on the Rwandan genocide. It was considered different, it wasn't a one group massacring people, but individuals killing each other. Neighbor vs neighbor. Since traditional tribunals wouldn't work in such a situation they used a local tradition called 'gatacas'? where the accused and victim came together in an open forum. One of the participants in the genocide returned to his village, among the very people who's relatives he killed or attempted to kill, like his own brother-in-law, with whom he later reconciled. It was a bit mind-boggling to me and it was a challenge to understand it.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Mar 29 02:41:57 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe,

You think we saw the same program? I may have been listening to NPR and they
may have been broadcasting the PBS show.

Another thing the man said was that only a few of those sentenced to death were
actually executed. Also, several had their sentences shortened because their
services were needed elsewhere to fight the Cold War.


^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Mar 29 01:26:45 2017 [Edit/Delete]
wolfguard I watched that part, it seemed to tragically absurd, so enormous a crime, but only a drop of justice. Right now, they are focusing on My Lai and Abu Garib. wolfguard I watched that part, it seemed to tragically absurd, so enormous a crime, but only a drop of justice. Right now, they are focusing on My Lai and Abu Garib.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Wed Mar 29 00:52:17 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Edited: Wed Mar 29 00:53:46 2017
Christopher Marlowe,

Sometime this week I caught the tail-end of an interview with a man who
appeared to have an major role at the Nuremberg trials. He said he tried to
select as war criminals those with high ranks, both civilian and military.
He also said he was constrained in the number prosecuted by the number of
seats available for defendants (22).1

He said the defendants were all educated, patriotic, and some other well-
meaning adjective. He believed wars were fought when people believed their
identities, religions, or economic means were threaten.

I've long been on the record that saying Hitler was evil says nothing useful
towards understanding what happen or for deriving lessons to apply in the
future. There have been and still are many "Hitlers" about in the world.
They just have to land in the right circumstances to sprout.

Off that, I've been skimming Fair Play written by a former CIA case
officer (name slips me). It mostly consist of fictional scenarios to which
various participants are asked: Yes or No, i.e. would you countenance the
action? Here are a few ...

- Use journalist to spy
- Provide a prostitute to a valuable agent2
- Provide a child prostitute
- Provide a lethal pill to members of a covert action team undertaking a
very important mission in which they may be caught.
- Tamper with a political election (book written way before recent election)
- Break a promise to an agent
- Expose innocent person to harm so to further mission

1 I raised an eyebrow at this, because I thought one could simply
use more courtrooms or trials, but I may simply have misunderstood.

2 Here "agent" refers to "asset", not the CIA officer.


^ v
Trivia Girl says:
(Wed Mar 29 00:20:33 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Sunnydale's Trivial Pursuit

Category: Buffy
Question: What kind of monsters were the Turok-Han?
Answer: Vampires

Trivia Alphas: notoShyGirl
Trivia Betas: Agent Cooper

wolfguard I'm watching a PBS series called 'Dead Reckoning' about war crimes. Grim, yet fascinating.

^ v
ChristopherMarlowe says:
(Wed Mar 29 00:02:37 2017 [Edit/Delete]
finally home.

^ v
wolfguard says:
(Tue Mar 28 21:15:45 2017 [Edit/Delete]

Your question is easily answered by going the canon. Near the end of
Orpheus, Angel and Faith are talking about what they had just
experienced when Sunnydale comes up. Faith tells Angel, ~~~ I'd rather be eaten
by a bear (than go back), but that's where I'm needed.

I do not have immediate access to AtS scripts and my memory is not excellent on
the dialogue, but that's the key takeaway. Faith escaped prison to save Angel
and she will return to Sunnydale because duty calls. Redemption is never


^ v
DaddyCatALSO says:
(Tue Mar 28 19:31:44 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Havign a bit of a quandary about my Ice Age Buffy fic setting, which recall branches off in late S-6 BtVS/S-3 Angel. What would cause Faith, when warned of the unavoidable coming disaster, to decide to go back to Sunnydale with Wesley instead of joining Angel and Cordelia and the rest and going to Texas? And I won't use the "Faith an d Buffy know in their hearts they're meant for each other" weasel-out.

^ v
Agent Cooper says:
(Tue Mar 28 18:58:19 2017 [Edit/Delete]
Christopher Marlowe: Let's just say one sounds an awful lot like the other, both names describe somewhat similar fictional creatures, and Tolkien wrote HIS stories in the 1940s, and leave it at that.

*cough cough*


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